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Outsourcing hits US techies hard
Times of India ^ | MAY 26, 2003 | CHIDANAND RAJGHATTA

Posted on 05/26/2003 3:51:30 PM PDT by Lessismore

WASHINGTON: On a recent April afternoon in Silicon Valley, moments after he was told he had been laid off from his computer programming job at a Bank of America training centre, Kevin Flanagan stepped into the parking lot and shot himself dead.

Some of America's technology workers, who like Flanagan have also had to collect pink slips over the last several months, think they know why Flanagan took his life: Bank of America not only outsourced his job to India, but forced him to train Indian workers to do the job he had to give up.

In the weeks since his death, the techies have used the incident as fuel to fire a campaign against outsourcing to India, an issue that now seems poised to become a major sticking point between the two countries. Several US states are already considering legislation to ban or limit outsourcing.

Bank of America is one of several major US corporations – General Electric, Microsoft, Intel are among others - under scrutiny for outsourcing jobs to India. The Bank created what is called a "Global Delivery centre" in 2000 to identify projects that could be sent offshore.

Since then it has signed agreements with Infosys and Tata Consulting Services (TCS) to provide solutions and services.

In an e-mail exchange with this correspondent, Kevin's father Tom Flanagan said "a significant reason for which my son took his life was indeed as a result of his job being outsourced."

"Did he blame India for his job loss? No. He blamed the "system." He couldn't understand why Americans are losing jobs. Rather I should say he understood it economically, but not emotionally," Flanagan said.

Bank officials, who did not return calls relating to Flanagan's death, have said in the past that the deal with Indian companies would effect no more than 5 per cent of the bank's 21,000 employees, or about 1,100 jobs, in its technology and operations division.

According to some surveys, the US has lost at least 800,000 jobs in the past year and some 3.3 million jobs will move overseas over the next few years because of outsourcing, mostly to India.

The Bank has also acknowledged that it had asked local workers to train foreigners because such knowledge transfer was essential. According to Tom Flanagan, his son was "totally disgusted" with the fact that he and his fellow-workers had to train foreigners to do his job so they could take over. "That sir is a travesty," he said in one e-mail.

US tech workers are challenging the corporate world's claim that it is outsourcing work to improve bottomlines and efficiency. Some analysts have also pointed out that US corporations were being forced to tighten up by the same people who are moaning about outsourcing, and who, heavily invested in the stock market, demand better performance.

But on one website that discussed the Flanagan case, a tech worker pointed out that data processing consumed only a small per cent of revenues and was hardly a drain on the Bank's profit.

"(It is) a prosperous bank which has let greed trump any sense of patriotism or social responsibility," he fumed.


TOPICS: Front Page News
KEYWORDS: catholiclist; michaeldobbs
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To: dfwgator; BrooklynGOP
If our economy can put less into the product or service, and receive the same product or service, we, as a whole, are better off.

Money is created by, in simple terms, work. Hold a dollar in your hand and know that that represents a certain amount of another human being's time, through work. Most say "goods and services" however both are products of someone's work. Now, to get paid what IT workers are being paid, others must work in order to pay that fee.

Now, if other workers, elsewhere, can produce the same product or service for LESS, that will result in less work being required for the fee of those workers. Now, the amount of work in our economy remaining a constant, that frees up funds, derived from work, to be spent elsewhere.

This is why you see small tribes in africa with a very low standard of living, and a LARGE population such as the US with a very high standard. The less work you have in an economy, the poorer that economy will be while the more work you have in an economy, the richer it will be (All this assuming that the economy is a FREE market).

The Commie/union mind-set is one of an uneducated theory. They believe that each person is meant for a specific job. If said job is not needed, or does not pay enough, then that person is simply out of luck, and something must be done so that that person can work in said job and be paid what they require for living.

The problem with that theory is that it traps an economy. A free market requires that workers be willing to fill whatever need necessary. Therefore, the amount of work/money remains constant while the market adapts to whatever is in need. To best serve that economy, each need must be met in the MOST efficient manner. This means that the less a good or service costs to make or perform, the better for everyone in that economy.

This means that from the standpoint of a worker who believes "I do this, only this, and nothing else.", it can be a negative. However, an economy should not halt itself just so a few "set in their ways" workers can keep living off their profession in the same manner that they have always performed it.

461 posted on 05/26/2003 11:59:57 PM PDT by Texaggie79
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Comment #462 Removed by Moderator

To: Texaggie79
so nice I posted it twice...

That, or it's just getting late....
463 posted on 05/27/2003 12:01:19 AM PDT by Texaggie79
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To: Rightwing Conspiratr1
What I'm asking, what should this years high school grads be majoring in for future job potential? Fast food service.

Are you kidding? Only Mex'cuns can work in fast food.

464 posted on 05/27/2003 12:15:30 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: DAnconia55
They are, aren't they.

Regards,

L

465 posted on 05/27/2003 12:29:27 AM PDT by Lurker ("One man of reason and goodwill is worth more, actually and potentially, than a million fools" AR)
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To: Texaggie79
My concern isn't so much with outsourcing of H1-B's or free trade in general, it is with the overregulation of business in this country that will make the US less capable of adapting to change. The ability to adapt is what has given the US the advantage over all the other countries, and we are risking giving away that advantage as government stifles the small businessman.
466 posted on 05/27/2003 12:33:26 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Huber
discretely = discreetly

bear = bare

Not to nitpick but it's distracting when you mix up your homonyms, dude.

467 posted on 05/27/2003 3:02:34 AM PDT by Neanderthal (Kick their @$$ and take their gas.)
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To: Texaggie79
If our economy can put less into the product or service, and receive the same product or service, we, as a whole, are better off.

Faustian bargain when the gain comes by sacrificing domestic producers. Dirt cheap goods and services mean nothing without the ability to earn money to buy them. It's hard to stretch a zero dollar income.

468 posted on 05/27/2003 3:08:23 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: Texaggie79; LibertarianInExile; Pukin Dog; BrooklynGOP; Lurker
All the positive mental attitude, bootstrap rugged individualism stuff is no substitute for just plain being on the wrong side of history. It is no match for monied power. And for as long as powerful transnational economic elites are committed to reducing the American standard of living to make rich people richer we are all on the wrong side of history, playing a fixed game.

The only answer to monied power is for people to fight back instead of deluding themselves that they can somehow avoid the consequences of living in a country with net downwards social mobility.

And this is not in the least about "government regulation". It is about labor costs, pure and simple. A third world who makes a tenth of what the American worker does doesn't have to be as good as the American worker. Just good enough.

Looking at the volume and intensity of these posts, this is obviously an issue that could blow the Republican coalition to smithereens. If the Right doesn't seize it, one of these days the Left will use it to rebuild the New Deal coalition. Characters like Pukindog and Lurker certainly are well cast for the part of 1935 Liberty Leaguers railing from their mansions and penthouses about "that man in Washington".
469 posted on 05/27/2003 3:23:41 AM PDT by Tokhtamish
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To: DAnconia55
I think the most absurd post on this thread tried to claim that workers now are worse off that their grandfathers.

Guess modern medicine, computers, total indoor plumbing (Well except for Arkansas), modern highways, the internet, greater energy efficiency, etc, etc... count for nothing.

Perhaps if you stopped striking iron-jawed heroic poses towering miles above the rabble for a second you would have noticed that the non-college educated blue collar worker of today flatly does not have the standard of living he had in 1960. In 1960 he could buy a house, go away on vacation, send a kid to college, have health insurance and a pension, and all on one paycheck. What non-college educated worker can do that now ?

470 posted on 05/27/2003 3:35:58 AM PDT by Tokhtamish
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To: Tokhtamish
It is about labor costs, pure and simple. A third world who makes a tenth of what the American worker does doesn't have to be as good as the American worker. Just good enough.

It's going to work tremendous hardships on American workers, but like death and taxes, it would seem to be inevitable. Even smaller firms will find outsourcing within their reach as technology advances.

471 posted on 05/27/2003 3:36:34 AM PDT by Roscoe
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To: Roscoe
The result of diluting the American workforce with the raw manpower of the whole third world population will not be pretty.
472 posted on 05/27/2003 3:39:31 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: HiTech RedNeck
The result of diluting the American workforce with the raw manpower of the whole third world population will not be pretty.

I agree. But how could it be prevented?

473 posted on 05/27/2003 3:41:47 AM PDT by Roscoe
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To: Incorrigible
When will the trend to outsource lawyers start?

Never, since Congress is brimming with them.


BUMP

474 posted on 05/27/2003 3:43:08 AM PDT by tm22721 (May the UN rest in peace)
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To: Roscoe
Sooner or later there will be the mother of all political backlashes. And the GOP, I'm afraid, will take an immense fall as the Democrats point out how they presided over the outsourcing of American wage earning power. (Being hypocrites the Heehaw party won't say anything about ILLEGAL aliens, but they will get away with that because illegal aliens are only a minority of the problem.)
475 posted on 05/27/2003 3:54:05 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: TaxRelief
Those of you, who ignore history and have no faith in the innovation of Americans, are ignoring critical data.

A free market is what has brought us to this point in time, and doing everything in your power to make the market even freer, is what will continue to make our economy grow.

It is you who ignore history. You ignore that as Venice and Holland and Britain stopped making things and shifted to service economies their days were numbered as economic great powers.

476 posted on 05/27/2003 3:54:59 AM PDT by Tokhtamish
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To: mylife
Moron, anti-capalist pig! They can then say, "we invented the number system." And, do you know how many Indian's worked on the orginal development of IBMs mainframe. It will blow your mind!
477 posted on 05/27/2003 3:55:02 AM PDT by USMMA_83
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To: RaceBannon
A statement like that can only come from a person who deserves to be unemployeed, and is no doubt stupid to the core.
478 posted on 05/27/2003 4:02:26 AM PDT by USMMA_83
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To: Lessismore
As long as we deify the consumer lifestyle, we will be caught in this downward spiral.

Until the Marxists gain a foothold in this country.

A capitaist Democracy is like balancing a balloon on the edge of a knife blade.


BUMP

479 posted on 05/27/2003 4:03:56 AM PDT by tm22721 (May the UN rest in peace)
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To: Huber
"Furthermore, the unfortunate loss of life by the displaced worker is clear indication that we need more gun control now."

I sure hope you forgot the sarcasm tag, and really don't believe that.

480 posted on 05/27/2003 4:05:58 AM PDT by SERE_DOC (Murphy's rules for combat #14 The equipment you are using was made by the lowest bidder!)
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