Is Iran an Arab Country?

Slate ^ | 5/25/03 | Chris Suellentrop

[El Gato]

The younger Persians will enjoy living in the 21st century.

Indeed they will. It's only been about 30 years when they were pretty much living in the 20th century. Then they backslid with a little help from Mr. Peanut and his minions.

[Porterville]

Persia is what it is; Arabia is what it is;

[niteowl77]

Back when Jimmy Carter was stirring up the pot, I was going to Iowa State, which seemed to have more than its share of Iranian students. I recall very clearly the distinction they drew between themselves and "Arabs." I got a little uncomfortable more than once, as it could get pretty ugly- there was not a little racism there, along with a resentment I am only now beginning to comprehend.

[stop_fascism]

All those are Arabs for whom the central fact of history is the mission of Muhammad and the memory of the Arab Empire

I've heard a number of people call themselves "Christian Arabs". What gives?

[CobaltBlue]

Arabs are Semitic, and so are Sephardic and other Middle Eastern Jews. Genetic testing of Arabs and Sephardic Jews shows very close relationships. If you say Arabs aren't white then you are saying Jews aren't white.

[CobaltBlue]

>>What gives?<<

There are Christian Arabs in Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, and Iraq, and to a lesser extent every other Arab country but Saudi Arabia, where Christianity is outlawed.

[Salman]

I realize people have a desire for Arabs not to be Caucasians but they are. Deal with it.

Originally the English word "race" meant nationality or lineage. Thus, The English race, the French race, the Irish race, the Jewish race, the Spanish race etc.

In the 19th century the Darwinian anthropologists got into the act and defined a "race" as a distinct biological sub-spieces of Homo sapiens. Thus "Caucasoid", "Mongoloid", "Negroid", "Capoid", "Boskopoid", "Australoid" (there were various classifications along this line).

Now it has been determined that human variation does not rise to the level of separate sub-species. I accept this. But when they say there is no such thing as "race", I say define your terms.

It really doesn't matter what "race" the Arabs (or anyone else) may be. What matters is behaviour. Apparently this is not genetic, but it is deeply ingrained in culture.

There were horrors perpetrated in the name of "race" in the last century, and scientists were partly to blame. Let's get beyond this and concentrate on behaviour.

[McGavin999]

Of all the accomplishments of the Persians, I thank them most for the rose.

[AEMILIUS PAULUS]

I did not state they were identical. However, I do point out:

Both are Islamic(though Shia vs. Sunni); architecture the same tradition; plastic arts the same tradition; mathematics the same, philosophy the same etc. I am speaking about the period 600 AD through say 1600 AD. Persian is an Indo-European language-with a heavy semitic vocabulary due to the conquest.(For example, Ketab is Arabic and means Book. Persian uses Ketab-as does Hebrew.) In conclusion, they are closer to each other culturally than either one of them is to say: Western man or the Chinese etc. In the same way the German is closer to the Englishman than he is to the Persian. The Arab and the Persian are the same culture.

[RedWhiteBlue]

I didn't say that, I only repeated what I was told in school.

Further to your comment about both Jews and Arabs being "Semetic," the word "Semetic" describes both of them because both groups are descendants of Shem, one of Noah's three sons. Further down Shem's lineage is Abraham, who had two sons through two different wives: Hagar bore him Ishmael and Sarah bore him Isaac. According to the Old Testament, God made a distinction between the descendants of these two sons of Abraham, but he promised to make both of them into a separate nation. (Genesis 21:11-13)

Different race, however? Well, they did have different mothers. Who knows? I attended public school, not parochial, so there definitely wasn't a religious agenda behind what I was told. The "classical" divisions of the three races were based on physical characteristics, like the bone structure of the skull and other such observable details.

How did your educational experience define the races and where did the Jews and Arabs fit within what you were taught?

[stop_fascism]

The thing that is confusing me is that this article indicates that to be an Arab you have to be Muslim.

[CobaltBlue]

When it comes to "race" there are two different way that biologists and physical anthropologists look at a person - phenotype, which is the body, the way we look, the color of our hair, the color of our eyes, the shape of our faces, and there is genotype, which is our DNA.

Cultural scientists look at people in completely different ways, e.g., language, religion.

Language and religion probably won't tell you what race a person is, just as you can't tell the language or the religion just by looking at a person.

[CobaltBlue]

>>The thing that is confusing me is that this article indicates that to be an Arab you have to be Muslim.<<

OK, but the fact that there are Christian Arabs must mean that the article is wrong. Or maybe it's a matter of definition.

Christians who are born in Arab countries and speak Arabic and are genetically closely related to Arabs are Arabs, to me.

[meema]

I was sitting here shaking my head at the 'Persian' language, and then I saw your post.
Yes, Farsi is the correct language.

[RedWhiteBlue]

Language and religion probably won't tell you what race a person is, just as you can't tell the language or the religion just by looking at a person.

I can sure buy into that. Here in the US, I know caucasian Budhists and Arab Christians. When I traveled to Asia for business, I found out that some of the people I did long-distance business with from the states in Indonesia and Malaysia were Christians. I didn't know it until we went to dinner and they crossed themselves and prayed before the meal. (I had no reason to believe they were NOT Christian; I had just assumed that because of their country of origin that they were Muslim).

My interests, when it comes to the anthropological vs. cultural study, are somewhat of a mixture. I find the study of other cultures to be very interesting, but when anthropology gets involved and tries to fit pieces of the puzzle together, I find it totally fascinating. A good example are some of the articles or papers posted here by BLAM.

[sonofron]

I use the term "race" to indicate the classic three biological/genetic groups. So "race" is a genetic or biological indicator. The arabs are a mixed-race people, much like the majority of mexicans are mixed race people (mestizos). arabs are mixed between the negroid and caucasian races. The Iranians were orignally a caucasian people in ancient times, but they've been dominated by the Arabs and others for hundreds of years and as a result many of them look "arab". but many of them look caucasian or "white" also. The ancient persians(iranians) were much like the babylonians or greeks, with light skin and dark, wavy hair. I get this from looking at pictures of paintings from ancient greece, mesopotamia, and persia. The statues look caucasian, too. Language also supports this theory.

[RedWhiteBlue]

I realize people have a desire for Arabs not to be Caucasians but they are. Deal with it.

I don't have a problem with that, and I did not state that I believed that. In fact, it makes absolutely no difference to me whatsoever. I have no horse in that race (no pun intended). Perhaps you should re-read my comment. I merely stated that was what I was taught in school. Sorry to disappoint you, but I have nothing to "deal with."

I hate it when people read things into comments that are not there. I can't simply list every single caveat to what I say so that it isn't taken wrong. If, however, you are trying to point out that I am some sort of racist or bigot, you would be the first person to ever have that opinion in my 44 years on this earth.

When I was a kid in school, I was taught that the determination of race was based on specific physical attributes that could be observed or measured and documented. As far as I can remember, there was a list (or maybe it was a map or chart, it doesn't matter) where the people of each country were funneled into one of the three categories. But, since I read your comment to me I did a google search on combinations of "Arab, Mongoloid, Caucasoid, and Negroid," and I did not find anything conclusive. So apparently even the "experts" are somewhat in disagreement on the subject, and some even speculate that Arabs are a mixture of more than one race. Perhaps you can find some references to nail it down a bit? I'd be happy to review them.

[RedWhiteBlue]

Another example would be the Afghans. I seen many an Afghan child in the news since our forces got there in October 2001 that is obviously Caucasian.

[sonofron]

"Another example would be the Afghans. I seen many an Afghan child in the news since our forces got there in October 2001 that is obviously Caucasian."

Some of the Afghans are probably caucasians. Northern africa, west and central asia are all examples of basically mixed race people. The mongols and arab conquests have definately played a part in the endless cycle of immigration and invasion that have taken place in thousands of years in afganistan and the rest of the middle east. THe mongols were asians that looked like the chinese. The greeks conquered parts of afghanistan, so there is a caucasion influence there.

A recent discovery in west china found remains of red haired caucasians that treked across asia and settled there. the scientist concluded that they were obsorded into the asians in their region. very interesting.