The Absurdity of 'Thinking in Language'

the author's site ^ | 1972 | Dallas Willard

[js1138]

Telepathy? Can you offer me a non-fraudulent instance of telepathy?

[unspun]

I'm with VR on the need for concrete imagery. Abstractions are fine as long as they summarize concrete objects, events or relationships.

The very language you use would assume that there are relationships which are not so "concrete." If one cannot use abstractions for these, what can one use?

[unspun]

Thinking is merely the mental refinement of a thought or idea.

If so, how did those -pure? -pristine? -raw? ideas "get here?"

And what about untrue thoughts? Where do they come from?

[FITZ]

I don't know about telepathy but I know there have been times I started thinking about a family member I hadn't spoken with for some time and decided to call them but sitting down to make the call, and instead the phone rang and it was the same person I was about to call. I guess there are logical explanations for that kind of thing ---maybe some forgotten trigger like the date of some kind of anniversary --in the unconscious mind. Language is very useful of course but I think all of us think and reason without words. One thing I think is interesting is if you take a computer programming class or something else that requires reason ---and you decide to sleep on a problem, suddenly at night the solution comes to you ---and it happened in some part of your brain but didn't require conscious waking thought.

[Under the Radar]

I know how you can make a million dollars really easily with that skill...

[unspun]

An ascendant experience in thought.

[js1138]

The very language you use ...

I guess I've been caught. But in a sense, this proves my point. When you depart form the concrete, it's so easy to start talking about the way things are phrased rather than whether statements are true.

[Consort]

Telepathy? Can you offer me a non-fraudulent instance of telepathy?

We are all looking for that, aren't we? In post# 94 above, the poster claimed to have used telepathy in his life. You should direct you question to him, no?

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so much for your reply!

I suggest that everyone's does, don't you? All one has to do is experiment.

Strangely, there might be a purple elephant metaphor in here too. I'm giving William Terrell a heads up, just in case (LOL!)

Truly, I can't get "into" the mind of anyone else who is not a Christian, so I don't know whether it is "normal" to be aware of one's own non-language thinking. I do believe non-language thinking is counter-indicative to those who are driven to logic and reason exclusively.

It does occur to me that if one were to try to limit his thoughts to just that which could be expressed by language known to himself, he would necessarily be limiting his ability to learn, explore and do science; moreover, he would be virtually assassinating his own artistic creativity.

[unspun]

When you depart form the concrete, it's so easy to start talking about the way things are phrased rather than whether statements are true.

And when one denies important aspects of one's own very nature, the pressure inside will cause the truth to come out the cracks, nevertheless.

[js1138]

I've gone back and read the telepathy posts. I think I'll pass. I was just curious if anyone was claiming there were verifiable instances of telepathy. Personal testimony is pretty worthless when not backed up by disinterested witnesses.

[Consort]

I tend to agree.

[Alamo-Girl]

Er, I was eavesdropping again. For your discussion, the most documented instance of ESP known to me is Edgar Cayce. The linked webpage says that 14,000 instances were documented.

[Under the Radar]

You mean this Edgar Cayce?

[js1138]

No offense, but I was looking for non-fraudulent claims.

I'm going to research this a bit and get back to you. The first search results I found dealt with Atlantis. Developing...

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the link to the adverse view!

[js1138]

Here's a link from a Christian perspective.

[Alamo-Girl]

Please do let us know what you find! For the record, though, I was specifically addressing your inquiry about ESP - which is not the same as clairvoyance, retrocognition, precognition, etc. all of which have been claimed by Edgar Cayce and his supporters.

The bottom line in ESP (the 14,000 instances) is whether the documents show that he was able to communicate telepathically.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you for the link to the article!

[js1138]

The bottom line in ESP (the 14,000 instances) is whether the documents show that he was able to communicate telepathically.

I dunno. What part of a certifiable fraud is worth taking seriously. As you probably know, at least 30 percent of the country loves Bill Clinton. That's a lot of favorable witnesses. Do they prove his sincerity?