The Truth About Jonathan Pollard

Moment ^ | Received in e-mail 5/23/2003 | John Loftus

[Zionist Conspirator]

IMO the real problem lies in the outrageously lenient sentences normally handed out for the same crime.

If all spies were indeed treated with the same severity as Pollard, the charge of hypocrisy in this case would not exist.

[Courier]

Israelis are not stupid. It never made sense why they would be loud and public about Pollard unless they honestly believed he (and they by inference) was railroaded. They would certainly know.

If he, and they, were as guilty as purported they would want to sweep the issue to obscurity. But they always bring it up.

With this article, and Weinberger's quote, I believe that I now understand. I believe the posted article.

Pollard broke the law, no question. But he didn't deserve a life sentence.

But never mind about Pollard. If he is a victim, he is one of many, including those murdered on 9/11. The real harm to the US remains. The too cozy relationship with our mortal enemies, the Saudis.

[StolarStorm]

Why do you give a damn? Pollard was a traitor, not a hero.

[E Rocc]

Much as I despise Bill Clinton, even he drew the line...he may have been stringing some people along just to see what he could get out of it, but he wouldn't dare actually do it.

I can count three actual times I had respect for Clinton: when they sent Chelsea to a private school, when he refused to sign the landmines treaty, and when he didn't pardon Pollard and Peltier despite lefty pressure to do so.

According to Bill Casey, it wasn't revealing the names of our spies that was Pollard's egregious offense:

William J. Casey, the late C.I.A. director, who was known for his close ties to the Israeli leadership, stunned one of his station chiefs by suddenly complaining about the Israelis breaking the "ground rules." The issue arose when Casey urged increased monitoring of the Israelis during an otherwise routine visit, I was told by the station chief, who is now retired. "He asked if I knew anything about the Pollard case," the station chief recalled, and he said that Casey had added, "For your information, the Israelis used Pollard to obtain our attack plan against the U.S.S.R. all of it. The coordinates, the firing locations, the sequences. And for guess who? The Soviets." Casey had then explained that the Israelis had traded the Pollard data for Soviet emigres. "How's that for cheating?" he had asked.

Without addressing this charge, this article makes no case whatsoever.

-Eric

[Rodney King]

Israelis are not stupid. It never made sense why they would be loud and public about Pollard unless they honestly believed he (and they by inference) was railroaded. They would certainly know. If he, and they, were as guilty as purported they would want to sweep the issue to obscurity. But they always bring it up. With this article, and Weinberger's quote, I believe that I now understand. I believe the posted article. Pollard broke the law, no question. But he didn't deserve a life sentence.

If everything that Pollard and his supporters claim is true, then I would be ok if he was let out after 25 years instead of life. The issue that he has spent longer in jail then others for comparable crimes is a valid issue, which should be remedied by sentencing others who commit comparable crimes to jail for 25 years. Even if everything Pollard supporters claim is true, we simply can't have a situation where everyone makes up their own mind as to what information is serious, and what isn't.

But never mind about Pollard. If he is a victim, he is one of many, including those murdered on 9/11. The real harm to the US remains. The too cozy relationship with our mortal enemies, the Saudis.

Well, I don't feel too bad for Pollard, but I would agree that we had too cozy of a relationship with them for far too long - and that they are our mortal enemies.

[wimpycat]

If he is a victim, he is one of many, including those murdered on 9/11.

I sincerely hope you aren't equating Jonathan Pollard with the 9/11 victims.

Israelis are not stupid.

Americans aren't stupid, either. He's going to die in that prison, I hope you're smart enough to realize it.

[Zionist Conspirator]

Pollard will never be released. Don't waste your time.

Asking questions is never a waste of time, nor is posting articles or one's own beliefs/opinions on Free Republic.

[Rodney King]

I can count three actual times I had respect for Clinton: when they sent Chelsea to a private school, when he refused to sign the landmines treaty, and when he didn't pardon Pollard and Peltier despite lefty pressure to do so.

1. They are hypocrites. Carter was the respectful one who made his kids go to the crappy schools that he suppoted.

2. I suppose I have respect for him on the landmine treaty.

3. In all liklihood, his position had nothing to do with principle, and everything to do with either not getting enough of a bribe from Marc Rich, or fear of pissing off the intelligence community who might respond by exposing his crimes.

[Rodney King]

Good find. This aritlce has lost all credibility. It shoots down Seymour Hersh about the radio frequencies, as if they were the last thread holding Pollard in jail, when the same article by Hersh alleges that Pollard stole our entire attack plan. Do you think the author of our current article missed that line, or just chose to ignore it hoping that most people wouldn't notice?

[StolarStorm]

The endless 'Free Pollard' propoganda isn't going to influence Americans or our government, especially when the propoganda is a form of bigotry. Pollard is being defended by Israelies because he is Jewish. It really is that simple. If he was a black christian, these folks would not be trying to get him released.

[Courier]

You have trouble understanding what you read?

It is the theme of the posted article that what Casey, and others at the time, believed got to the Soviets by way of Pollard, actually was delivered by spies active AND UNKNOWN at that time, Ames and Hansen and who knows who else.

[Zionist Conspirator]

The endless 'Free Pollard' propoganda isn't going to influence Americans or our government, especially when the propoganda is a form of bigotry. Pollard is being defended by Israelies because he is Jewish. It really is that simple. If he was a black christian, these folks would not be trying to get him released.

You are missing the point. If Pollard were a "black chr*stian" who had spied for a friendly African country, he may have already walked. The point is that Pollard was singled out for severity not shown to other spies who did the same thing.

If you persist in ignoring this (which other anti-Pollard posters admit and lament) then you are obviously not a sincere person of goodwill but a believer in the inherently sinister nature of Jewishness.

I have no quarrel with anti-Pollard people who also demand consistency in the treatment of all spies, nor with people who argue the justification of this special treatment because they feel his crime was actually of greater enormity than that of the other spies. But outside these two positions, to merely condemn the questioning of Pollard's sentence based on his (or the questioners') Jewishness is sheer bigotry.

And no, I'm not Jewish. I'm a redneck.

[Courier]

I think it's a fair guess that a spy who had nothing to do with Israel would not be an issue for Israel.

I also think it's fair to assume that to you the only issue that matters concerns that he is Jewish and the Israeli involvement.

Truth, justice, be damned.

[NYC Republican]

Exactly. He's a spy. Plain and simple. If it were up to me, I'd hang him. I don't care where he's from.

[JustRight]

None of this matters. He swore an oath to the United States and violated it. Even if he gave the Israelis something they already knew, he should get death if he doesn't cooperate, life in prison if he does. A spy is a spy.

[Zionist Conspirator]

You have trouble understanding what you read?

It is the theme of the posted article that what Casey, and others at the time, believed got to the Soviets by way of Pollard, actually was delivered by spies active AND UNKNOWN at that time, Ames and Hansen and who knows who else.

Excellent point. Do you have a response, Mr. Rocc?

[tracer]

This is a complex matter, but the fact that "Pollard hadn’t meant for this to happen" provides little in the way of mitigating his treasonous acts against the US -- especially in light of the terrible fact that "the result of the "false flag" mistake was mass murder."

What nobody seems to even claim is that he did not in fact sell out our intelligence secrets to a foreign country. And the facts that he is Jewish or that Israel is an ally largely are immaterial.

If Pollard had robbed a bank and he unintentionally killed one of his hostages, he still would be responsible for that death, the bank robbery, and for the use of a firearm in the commission of his crime.

Actions do have consequences, and the death of our humint assets within the Soviet Union and the resultant long-term intelligence blackout warrants far more than he has received, IMO.

Any pro-Pollard protestations beyond these realities are specious at best......

[Rodney King]

It is the theme of the posted article that what Casey, and others at the time, believed got to the Soviets by way of Pollard, actually was delivered by spies active AND UNKNOWN at that time, Ames and Hansen and who knows who else.

Yeah, that's the theme. But get this, your article says the following:

In order to justify Pollard?s life sentence, they had to show that he did do some potentially catastrophic damage to America. What they came up with was a bit of a stretch. Pollard had given Israel a set of radio frequency guidebooks, a worldwide listing of short-wave radio bands. It takes a lot of time and money to compile one of these guides, but essentially they are just publicly available information, openly deduced by listening to who is talking to whom on which radio bands.

..Clearly implying that when the "false-flag" issue blew up, the intelligence people tried to nail him with the radio frequencies as their last grasp. The author goes on to point out that Hersh fell for this in his article.

The author totally skips over that in that same Hersh article is the allegation that Pollard sold our entire attack plan. Clearly, that calls into question the author's statements that the fallback position was a made up issue of radio frequencies. And clearly, one would have to wonder why the author would address the issue of the radio frequencies, and not the issue of the attack plan.

[E Rocc]

It is the theme of the posted article that what Casey, and others at the time, believed got to the Soviets by way of Pollard, actually was delivered by spies active AND UNKNOWN at that time, Ames and Hansen and who knows who else.

It only says this about the list of spies. Nowhere does it talk about the attack plan...an item of only one possible use to the Israelis (as Pollard had to know).

-Eric

[Zionist Conspirator]

This is a complex matter, but the fact that "Pollard hadn’t meant for this to happen" provides little in the way of mitigating his treasonous acts against the US -- especially in light of the terrible fact that "the result of the "false flag" mistake was mass murder."

What you are missing is that the point of the whole article is that the assertion "the result of the 'false flag' mistake was mass murder" is false. The mass murder had nothing to do with Pollard or any "false flag" in Israel but with Aldrich Ames.

If Pollard is not guilty of that particular result, then he is not guilty of it. His crime was spying for a friendly country and he should have received the same punishment as other spies for friendly countries.

So if Pollard's sentence was based on damage perpetrated by someone else, where is the justice?