Posted on 05/21/2003 2:40:44 PM PDT by Polycarp
PS, I would remind you of the words of The Rev. J.C. Watts re: homosexuality, "Hate the sin, love the sinner!"
BURGER, C.J., Concurring Opinion Decisions of individuals relating to homosexual conduct have been subject to state intervention throughout the history of Western civilization. Condemnation of those practices is firmly rooted in Judeo-Christian moral and ethical standards. Homosexual sodomy was a capital crime under Roman law.... During the English Reformation, when powers of the ecclesiastical courts were transferred to the King's Courts, the first English statute criminalizing sodomy was passed.... Blackstone described "the infamous crime against nature" as an offense of "deeper malignity" than rape, a heinous act "the very mention of which is a disgrace to human nature," and "a crime not fit to be named." W. Blackstone, Commentaries . The common law of England, including its prohibition of sodomy, became the received law of Georgia and the other Colonies. In 1816, the Georgia Legislature passed the statute at issue here, and that statute has been continuously in force in one form or another since that time. To hold that the act of homosexual sodomy is somehow protected as a fundamental right would be to cast aside millennia of moral teaching.
Thomas Jefferson on Sodomy Sect. XIV. Whosoever shall be guilty of rape, polygamy, or sodomy* with a man or woman, shall be punished; if a man, by castration, a woman, by boring through the cartilage of her nose a hole of one half inch in diameter at the least. Peterson, Merrill D. "Crimes and Punishments" Thomas Jefferson: Writings Public Papers (Literary Classics of the United States, Inc. 1984) pp. 355, 356.
Hundreds rally for '10 Commandments judge' Moore wrote a separate concurring opinion, repudiating homosexuality on religious grounds, calling it "abhorrent, immoral, detestable, a crime against nature, and a violation of the laws of nature and of nature's God."
OPTION A:
The Summer of Our Discontent: The Church Fights Back in the Culture War on Homosexuality." <> Transforming Congregations is a network of uniting ("mainline") churches in the USA and Australia whose mission is to "provide information, resources and training in understanding and involvement in transforming ministry toward homosexuals, and to encourage transforming ministry based on loving compassion, scripture, and The Discipline of the United Methodist Church." Courage is a network of Roman Catholics whose mission is to "provide spiritual support for men and women striving to live chaste lives in accordance with the Catholic Church's pastoral teaching on homosexuality." Write to Courage, c/oChurch of St John the Baptist, 210 W 31st Street, New York, NY 10001. The phone number is (212) 268-1010. There are chapters in many major cities, including New York, Philadelphia, Harrisburg, and Chicago. One By One is a fellowship of Presbyterian (USA) churches whose mission is to "educate and equip the Church to minister the transforming grace and power of the Lord Jesus Christ to those who are in conflict with their sexuality." PFOX - welcome! No one is born gay. All scientific studies, including those by gay scientists, have not found any gay gene or gay brain center.
SODOMY : Homosexual Rape and Murder of Children
SODOMY : Log Cabin leader tied to Website urged murder of President Reagan, Christian leaders
SODOMY : Major Scientific Study Examines Domestic Violence Among Gay Men
SODOMY : Sex Abuse And Homosexuals
SODOMY : The Lords of Bakersfield (Powerful gay men. Vulnerable teen-age boys. Murder.)
OPTION B:
State Sodomy Laws in 1791 Connecticut
That if any man shall lie with mankind, as he lieth with womankind, both of them have committed abomination, they both shall be put to death; except it shall appear that one of the parties was forced, or under fifteen years of age; in which case the party forced, or under the age aforesaid, shall not be liable to suffer the said punishment. THE PUBLIC STATUTE LAWS OF THE STATE OF CONNECTICUT, 1808 title LXVI (66), ch. 1, § 2, p. 295. Delaware
That if any person or persons shall commit sodomy, or buggery, or rape or robbery, . . . he or they so offending, or committing any of the said crimes within this government, their counsellors, aiders, comforters and abettors, being convicted thereof, as above-said, shall suffer as felons, according to the tenor, direction, form and effect of the several statutes in such cases respectively made and provided in Great Britain; any act or law of this government to the contrary in any wise not withstanding. LAWS OF THE STATE OF DELAWARE, 1797, ch. 22a, § 5, p. 67 (passed in 1719). Maryland
Maryland had no sodomy statute in 1791, but the Declaration of Rights of Maryland, section 3, a portion of the Maryland State Constitution passed in 1776 said "that the inhabitants of Maryland are entitled to the common law of England. . . ." Sodomy was a crime under the common law (see section on North Carolina). Every person duly convicted of the crime of sodomy, shall be sentenced to undergo a similar confinement for a period not less than one year nor more than ten years, under the same conditions as are herein after directed. MARYLAND LAWS, ch. . CXXXVIII (138), art. IV, § 8. Massachusetts
That if any man shall lay with mankind as he layeth with a woman, or any man or woman shall have carnal copulation with any beast or brute creature, and be thereof duly convicted, the offender, in either of those cases, shall be adjudged guilty of felony, shall be sentenced to suffer the pains of death, and the beast shall be slain, and every part thereof burned. And be it further enacted by the authority aforesaid, that such order and form of process shall be had and used, in trial of such offenders, and such judgment given, and execution done, upon the offender, as in cases of murder. PERPETUAL LAWS OF THE COMMONWEALTH OF MASSACHUSETTS, 1780- 1789, p. 187, Act of March 3, 1785. New Hampshire
That if any man shall carnally lie with a man, as a man carnally lieth with a woman, or if any man or woman shall have carnal copulation with any beast, or brute creature, and be thereof convicted, the offender in either of those cases before mentioned, shall suffer death, and the beast shall be slain and burned. LAWS OF NEW HAMPSHIRE, 1805, p. 267 (passed February 8, 1791). New Jersey
That sodomy, or the infamous crime against nature, committed with mankind or beast, shall be adjudged a high crime and misdemeanor, and be punished by fine and solitary imprisonment at hard labour, for any term not exceeding twenty-one years. ACTS OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY, March 18, 1796, ch. DC, § 7, p. 93. New York
That the detestable and abominable vice of buggery, committed with mankind, or beast, shall be from henceforth adjudged felony; and such order and form of process therein shall be used against the offenders, as in cases of felony at the common law; and that every person being thereof convicted, by verdict, confession, or outlawry, shall be hanged by the neck, until he or she shall be dead. LAWS OF NEW YORK, ch. . 21, p. 391 (passed February 14, 1787). North Carolina
When the Bill of Rights was ratified in 1791, North Carolina had adopted the English common law statute of Henry VIII which was the basis for the common law's crime of buggery (see section on South Carolina): Forasmuch as there is not yet sufficient and condign punishment appointed and limited by the due course of the Laws of this Realm, for the detestable and abominable vice of Buggery committed with mankind or beast: It may therefore please the King's Highness, with the assent of his Lords spiritual and temporal, and the Commons of this present Parliament assembled . . . That the same offense be from henceforth adjudged Felony . . . And that the offenders being hereof convict . . . shall suffer such pains of death and losses and penalties of their goods, chattels, debts, lands, tenements and hereditaments, as Felons be accustomed to doe [sic] according to the order of the Common-laws of this Realm. And that no person offending in any such offense, shall be admitted to his Clergy, And that Justices of Peace shall have power and authority, within the limits of their Commissions and Jurisdictions, to hear and determine the said offense, as they do use to doe [sic] in cases of other Felonies . . . 25 Henry VIII, ch. 6. Pennsylvania
That the pains and penalties hereinafter mentioned shall be inflicted upon the several offenders who shall from and after the passing of this act commit and be legally convicted of any of the offences hereinafter enumerated and specified, in lieu of the pains and penalties which by law have been heretofore inflicted; that is to say, every person convicted of robbery, burglary, sodomy or buggery or as accessory thereto before the fact shall forfeit to the commonwealth all and singular the lands and tenements, goods and chattels whereof he or she was seized or possessed at the time the crime was committed and at any time afterwards until conviction and be sentenced to undergo a servitude of any term or time at the discretion of the court passing the sentence not exceeding ten years in the public gaol or house of correction of the county or city in which the offence shall have been committed and be kept at such labor and fed and clothed in such manner as is herein after directed. THE STATUTES AT LARGE OF PENNSYLVANIA, 1682-1801, vol. 13, (1682- 1801), p. 511, ch. MDXVI (1516). Rhode Island
That every person who shall be convicted of sodomy, or of being accessary [sic] thereto before the fact, shall, for the first offence [sic], be carried to the gallows in a cart, and set upon said gallows, for a space of time not exceeding four hours, and thence to the common gaol, there to be confined for a term not exceeding three years, and shall be grieviously fined at the direction of the Court; and for the second offence [sic] shall suffer death. THE PUBLIC LAWS OF THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND AND PROVIDENCE PLANTATIONS , 1798, § 8, p. 586, "An Act to Reform the Penal Laws."
South Carolina
Forasmuch as there is not yet sufficient and condign [sic] Punishment appointed and limited by the due Course of the A-6 Laws of this Realm, for the detestable and abominable Vice of Buggery committed with the Mankind or Beast: (2) It may therefore be enacted, That the same offence be from henceforth adjudged felony, and such Order and Form of Process therein to be used against the Offenders as in Cases of Felony at the Common Law; (3) and that the Offenders being hereof convict [sic] by Verdict, Confession, or Outlawry, shall suffer such Pains of Death, and Losses and Penalties of the Goods, Chattels, Debts, Lands, Tenements and Hereditaments, as Felons be accustomed to do, according to the Order of the Common Laws of this Realm; (4) and that no Person offending in any such Offence, shall be admitted to his Clergy; (5) and that Justices of Peace shall have Power and Authority, within the Limits of their Commissions and Jurisdictions, to hear and determine the said Offence, as they do use to do in Case of other Felonies. PUBLIC LAWS OF THE STATE OF SOUTH CAROLINA, 1790, p. 49.
The English common law statute banning sodomy issued by Henry VIII reads:
Where in the Parliament begun at London the 3d Day of November in the 21st Years of the late King of most famous Memory, King Henry the Eighth, and after by Prorogation holden at Westminster in the 25th Year of the Reign of said late King, there was one Act and Statute made, entitled, An Act for the Punishment of the Vice of Buggery, whereby the said detestable Vice was made Felony, as in the said Estatute [sic] more and large it doth and may appear: (2) Forasmuch as the said Statute concerning the Punishment of the said Crime and Offence of Buggery standeth at this present repealed and void by Virtue of the Statute of Repeal made in the 1st Year of the Reign of the late Queen Mary: Sithence which Repeal so had A-7 and made divers evil disposed Persons have been the more bold to commit the said most horrible and detestable Vice of Buggery aforesaid, to the high Displeasure of Almighty God. II. Be it enacted, That the said Statute before mentioned, made in the 25th Year of the said late King Henry the 8th, for the Punishment of the said detestable Vice of Buggery, and every Branch, Clause, Article and Sentence therein contained, shall from and after the 1st Day of June next coming be revived, and from thenceforce shall stand, remain, and be in full Force, Strength and Effect for every, in such Manner, Form and Condition, as the same Statue was at the Day of the Death of the said late King Henry the Eighth, the said Statute of Repeal made in the said 1st Year of the said late Queen Mary or any Words general or special therein contained, or any other Act or Acts, Thing or Things, to the contrary notwithstanding.
PUBLIC LAWS OF THE STATE OF SOUTH CAROLINA, 1790, p. 65. Virginia
Before 1792, Virginia relied on the English common law which made sodomy a punishable crime (see HENNINGS STATUTES OF VIRGINIA, vol. 9, 1775-1778, ch. V, § VI, p. 127). Virginia passed a specific sodomy ban in 1792:
That if any do commit the detestable and abominable vice of buggery, with man or beast, he or she so offending, shall be adjudged a felon, and shall suffer death, as in case of felony, without the benefit of clergy. VIRGINIA STATUTES AT LARGE, 1835, p. 113 . State Sodomy Laws in 1868 Alabama
Crimes against nature, either with mankind or any beast, are punishable by imprisonment in the penitentiary not less than two or more than ten years. ALABAMA CODE, 1852, § 3235, p. 583 . Arkansas
Every person convicted of sodomy, or buggery, shall be imprisoned in said jail and penitentiary house, for a period not less than five, nor more than 21 years. STATUTES OF ARKANSAS, 1858, ch. 51, Art. IV, § 5, p. 335 (passed in 1838). California
The infamous crime against nature, either with man or beast, shall subject the offender to be punished by imprisonment in the State Prison for a term not less than five years, and which may extend to life. STATUTES 1850 , ch. 99, § 48, p. 99. Florida
Whoever commits the abominable and detestable crime against nature, either with mankind or with any beast, shall be punished by imprisonment in the State penitentiary not exceeding twenty years. FLORIDA LAWS 1868, ch. 1637, Subchap. 8, § 17, p. 98. Georgia
Sodomy and bestiality shall be punished by hard labour in the penitentiary, during the natural life or lives of person or persons convicted of these detestable crimes. LAMAR'S OF GEORGIA, 1810-1819, § 35, p. 571. Illinois
The infamous crime against nature, either with man or beast, shall subject the offender to be punished by imprisonment in the penitentiary for a term not less than one year, and may extend to life. REVISED STATUTES OF 1844-45, ch. 30, Div. 5, § 50, p. 158. Kansas
Every person who shall be convicted of the detestable and abominable crime against nature, committed with mankind or with beast, shall be punished by confinement and hard labor not exceeding ten years. Art. 7, ch. 31, § 249, GENERAL STATUTES of 1868 (found at vol. 2, p. 340, STATUTES OF KANSAS , 1897). Kentucky
Whoever shall be convicted of the crime of sodomy or buggery with man or beast, he shall be confined in the penitentiary not less than two nor more than five years. REVISED STATUTES OF 1852, ch. 28, Art. IV, § 11, p. 381. Louisiana
Whoever shall be convicted of the detestable and abominable crime against nature, committed with mankind or beast, shall suffer imprisonment at hard labor for life. REVISED STATUTES OF LOUISIANA, 1856, "CRIMES AND OFFENCES," § 5, p. 136.
Maine
Whoever commits the crime against nature, with mankind or with a beast, shall be punished by imprisonment not less than one, nor more than ten years. REVISED STATUTES OF 1857, ch. 124, § 3, p. 684. Michigan
Every person who shall commit the abominable and detestable crime against nature, either with mankind or with any beast, shall be punished by imprisonment in the State prison not more than fifteen years. COMPILED LAWS OF 1857 , § 5871, p. 1543. Minnesota
Every person who shall commit sodomy, or the crime against nature, either with mankind or any beast, shall be punished by imprisonment in the territorial [sic] prison, not more than five years, nor less than one year. MINNESOTA STATUTES 1858, ch. 96, § 13, p. 729. Mississippi
Every person who shall be convicted of the detestable and abominable crime against nature, committed with mankind or with a beast, shall be punished by imprisonment in the penitentiary for a term not more than ten years. LAWS OF 1857, ch. 64, Art. 238, § 52, p. 611.
Missouri
Every person who shall be convicted of the detestable and abominable crime against nature, committed with mankind or with beast, shall be punished by imprisonment in the penitentiary not less than ten years. REVISED STATUTES 1855, ch. 50, § 7, p. 624. Nevada
The infamous crime against nature, either with man or beast, shall subject the offender to be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for a term not less than five years and which may extend to life.
A-12 THE COMPILED LAWS OF NEVADA IN FORCE FROM 1861-1900, § 4699, sec. 45, p. 915 (approved November 26, 1861). Oregon
If any person shall commit sodomy or the crime against nature either with mankind or beast, such person, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by imprisonment in the penitentiary not less than one year, nor more than five years. OREGON ORGANIC AND GENERAL LAWS , 1845-64 , ch. 48, § 639, p. 560 (passed October 19, 1864). Tennessee
Crimes against nature, either with mankind or any beast, are punishable by imprisonment in the penitentiary not less than five nor more than fifteen years. CODE OF TENNESSEE, 1858, § 4843, p. 868. Texas
If any person shall commit with mankind or beast the abominable and detestable crime against nature, he shall be deemed guilty of sodomy, and on conviction thereof, he shall be punished by confinement in the penitentiary for not less than five nor more than fifteen years. PENAL CODE OF THE STATE OF TEXAS, 1879, art. 342, p. 46 (passed on February 11, 1860). Vermont
Vermont had no criminal sodomy statute until 1937, although Vermont courts recognized sodomy as a crime at common law, which could be punished. See STATE v. LA FORREST , 71 Vt. 311, 45 A. 225 (1899). This is the text of the Vermont criminal sodomy statute passed in 1937: A person participating in the act of copulating the mouth of one person with the sexual organ of another shall be imprisoned in the state prison not less than one year nor more than five years. VERMONT STATUTES OF 1947, ch. 370, § 8480, p. 1593 . West Virginia
If any person shall commit the crime of buggery, either with mankind or with any brute animal, he shall be confined in the penitentiary not less than one nor more than five years. CODE OF WEST VIRGINIA- 1870, ch. 149, § 12, p. 694 (passed in 1868). Wisconsin
Every person who shall commit sodomy, or the crime against nature, either with mankind or beast, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison, not more than five years nor less than one year. REVISED STATUTES OF WISCONSIN, 1858, ch. 170, § 15, p. 975.
A-14 After 1868 Indiana Indiana did not have a criminal sodomy law at the time of the passage of the 14 th Amendment, but passed the following law in 1881: Whoever commits the abominable and detestable crime against nature, by having carnal knowledge of a man or beast, or who, being a male, carnally knows any man or any woman through the anus, and whoever entices, allures, instigates, or aids any person under the age of twenty-one years to commit masturbation or self-pollution--is guilty of sodomy, and, upon conviction thereof, shall be imprisoned in the State prison not more than fourteen years nor less than two years. REVISED STATUTES OF INDIANA- 1897, ch. 5, art. 5, § 2118, p. 338. Iowa
Iowa did not have a criminal sodomy law at the time of passage of the 14 th Amendment, but later passed the following law in 1892: Any person who shall commit sodomy, shall be imprisoned in the penitentiary not more than ten years nor less than one year. ANNOTATED CODE OF IOWA, 1897, § 4937, p. 1941, passed 24 General Assembly, ch. 39. Ohio
Ohio did not have a criminal sodomy law in 1868, at the time of ratification of the Fourteenth Amendment. The Ohio Legislature later passed a criminal sodomy statute in 1885: Sec. 1 That whoever shall have carnal copulation against nature, with another human being or with a beast, shall be deemed guilty of sodomy, and shall, on conviction thereof, be imprisoned in the penitentiary not more than twenty years. OHIO LAWS 1885, p. 241 (passed May 4, 1885). Nebraska
Nebraska had a criminal sodomy law while it was a territory, but not for a few years after it became a state. The Statutes of the Nebraska Territory of 1866 had a criminal sodomy statute at § 47, "Offenses Against Persons," p. 599. Nebraska had no criminal sodomy law at the time the states ratified the Fourteenth Amendment in 1868. The Nebraska State Legislature later passed such a law in 1875, using the exact language of the earlier territorial sodomy law. That infamous crime against nature either with man or beast, shall subject the offender to be punished by imprisonment in the penitentiary for a term not less than one year, and my [sic] extend to life. COMPILED STATUTES, 1881, § 245, p. 805.
According to gay groups, gay rights include, but are not limited to, immunity from prosecution for being gay (i.e. sodomy), not being discriminated in relation to a job or volunteer work, the right to be married, to adopt children, to be role models for children, to associated or engage in any activity that a straight heterosexual would be able to, and the right for people to respect, and honor there lifestyle, to be free from judgement from others, to be free to engage in P.D.A. without being harassed,etc.
Gore is not running and I will not vote for any Democrat. I wouldn't vote for Gore, if he became a REPUBLICAN.
The links in post #16, go into detail about Government and Sodomy.
Finally:
Compassionate Society Should Discourage Deadly Homosexual Behavior
Homosexual behavior increases risk of AIDS - Dr. Brian J. Kopp, ... An exhaustive study in The New England Journal of Medicine, medical literature's only study reporting on homosexuals who kept sexual "diaries," indicated the average homosexual ingests the fecal material of 23 different men each year.
Medical Consequences of What Homosexuals Do FECAL SEX About 80% of gays (see Table) admit to licking and/or inserting their tongues into the anus of partners and thus ingesting medically significant amounts of feces. Those who eat or wallow in it are probably at even greater risk. In the diary study,5 70% of the gays had engaged in this activity--half regularly over 6 months. Result? --the "annual incidence of hepatitis A in...homosexual men was 22 percent, whereas no heterosexual men acquired hepatitis A." In 1992,26 it was noted that the proportion of London gays engaging in oral/anal sex had not declined since 1984.
SODOMY : Bug Chasers:The men who long to be HIV+
Citizens Against Government Waste Since the first federal resources were made available to state and local health agencies for AIDS prevention in 1985, federal funding, which now includes money for research, treatment, and housing, has skyrocketed to $13 billion for fiscal 2003. As a result of the work of highly mobilized lobbying forces, more is spent per patient on AIDS than on any other disease, though it does not even currently rank among the top 15 causes of death in the United States. In one year, 1998, heart disease, the nation's leading cause of death, killed 724,859 Americans only 6.8 percent less than the 774,767 who have contracted AIDS in the last 20 years.2 Of those 774,767 total AIDS cases, 462,766 have died. During that same period, 14 million Americans 30 times more have died of heart disease.
You might say the same thing about slavery.
But Mohammed did specifically mention support of slavery.
My opinion: Persons found guilty of crimes against nature (sodomy, etc.) should be subject to the same sort of punishments that bigamists, necrophiliacs, and other sexual perverts receive when sentenced. I'd personally suggest a return to public flogging or the stocks for sexual criminals, but fines and/or imprisonment would suffice.
Since you believe that these people are going to go to Hell, what should be done with them on earth?
Being afflicted with a disordered carnal desire for persons of one's own sex is not in and of itself a mortal sin. Voluntarily engaging in the practice of disordered sexual acts is. One can be afflicted with homosexual desires and be a good Christian at the same time provided that one chooses not to give in to their disordered desire for same-sex relations. In other words, homosexuals who remain chaste for life can be saved by the Grace of Christ; those who shamelessly practice unnatural sexual relations are disobeying Our Lord and will receive the consequences of their disobedience. (The same goes for people who choose to engage in sinful acts of any sort.)
Being a homosexual is like being an alcoholic. In both cases, the afflicted person suffers from a disorder of a good and natural physical desire: the alcoholic, from a disordered desire to drink liquor, the homosexual from a disordered desire to have sexual relations with persons of their same sex. Just as a recovering alcoholic can go to Heaven through faith in Christ, so can the homosexual who recognizes the sinfulness of the homosexual "lifestyle" and renounces it for good. A good Christian can no more say "God hates fags" than he can say "God hates drunks"; in each case, the responsibility of the Christian is to confront the afflicted person with evidence of their sin, then to compassionately help them as they struggle with their unnatural desires.
I missed the part where Horowitz endorses sodomy. Could you point it out for me?
Oh, man!
For God's sake, don't give those sick perverts any ideas!
You do realize that you've forced yourself to advocate public flogging for making either of those statements....
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