It?s Sweepstime For Hitler, But Winter for Truth (The CBS Hitler Miniseries IS a Bush-Hate Lie)

The New York Observer ^ | May 12, 2003 | Ron Rosenbaum

[kiwiexpat]

I largely agree with you on the potential for China having the potential to become a fascist state. What complicates any debate about the nature of political ideology and freeon is the difference between economic freedoms and political freedoms and how various ideologies and political systems treat both. For example, one could make the argument that in social democratic/quasi-socialist states such as Sweden, Norway, Germany, France, there is a high level of individual freedom, but more constraints on economic behaviour than we are used to here in the US. People forget or don't understand that socialism as it was practiced in the West actually was for a expansion of political and individual freedoms. Western socialism has a liberitarian strain, or at least can be quite accepting of liberitarian ideology that concerns social issues. It's position on the free market is another matter.

[Who is John Galt?]

Yes. I can tell you've had this argument many times. You'll continue to have it as long as you try to equate socialists with Nazis. They're not the same in anyone's political science but yours.

In actuality, there is little difference between a socialist and a national socialist. Your “political spectrum” (in which “the extremes ‘wrap’”) is obviously defective, my friend: you are working with an inverted horse shoe (which some folks consider to be an omen of ill fortune ;>) rather than a straight line. In reality, the opposite end of the “political spectrum” from your nearly indistinguishable socialists & national socialists is occupied by the anarchists. Perhaps you should learn to think, rather than just regurgitate whatever it is you refer to as “political science”...

;>)

[davisfh]

"I'm not afraid of being brainwashed. I trust myself. ;-)"

Yeah, really. I see anti-conservative rhetoric written into many shows on TV. If I turned the TV off everytime I see this, I would certainly watch a lot less.

[rwfromkansas]

I am too stunned to really get off my butt to Freep. I am shocked that CBS actually allowed this on the air (yes, I know it is CBS, but even for them...this is low.)

Those are obvious attempts at making this some modern comparison. It is repugnant.

[Wallace T.]

It's a little ridiculous to believe Hitler, an Austrian, would loudly condemn foreign infiltrators to Germany. The Nazis' main ethnic dislike was for the Jews, who had lived in Germany for centuries. It is also ridiculous for the Nazis to have been hostile to terrorism, since they used the same terror techniques the Communists did, only more effectively. Their principal political hatred was for the Marxists, who were their chief rivals.

The principal distinctive between Nazism/fascism and Communism/socialism was that the former was ethnically centered and nationalistic while the latter was universalist and internationalist. This distinctive reflects the roots of the political philosophies. Naziism drew in part from the 19th Century Romantic reaction against the rationalism and individualism of the 18th Century. As opposed to the notions of the autonomous individual, Naziism sought the meaning of existence in the national or racial collective. It also drew from the concepts of the Superman and the will to power of the German philosopher Freidrich Nietzsche. These notions, remarkably similar in effect to the Leninist theory of the vanguard of the proletariat, called for a strong leader to defy conventional morality and individual rights for an overarching goal, which in the case of the Nazis was the greater glory of Germany and the supremacy of the Nordic or Aryan "race." It also led to the glorification of a god-like Fuhrer or Duce who was above the law or even conventional morality. The Nazis called it the Fuhrerprinzip.

Unlike Naziism, Marxism-Leninism did not reject the rationalist viewpoint, at least in its materialism. Rather, it utlized the concepts of evolution popularized by Darwin in biology to promote the concept of a social evolution of the human race from barbarism through feudalism and capitalism to the ultimate end of that evolution, communism, defined as the universal ownership of all goods by all people and the end of class distinctives and of civil government. Marx conceived of this evolution occuring in class struggle between the bourgeoisie and the proletariat. He also rejected certain aspects of rationalism, accepting the critiques of German philosophers Kant and Hegel. From Hegel, Marx adopted the theory of the dialectic (thesis plus antithesis leading to a third position, synthesis) as the main mechanism of change in the universe. Lenin refined Marxian class struggle theory to propose the need for a revolutionary vanguard, the Communist Party, that would lead the proletarians in violent revolution. This elite, like its Nazi/fascist counterpart, could justifiably violate ethical rules and individual rights, but to accomplish the historical process of evolution to communism and not to glorify a nation, race, or supreme leader.

Naziism and other fascist or authoritarian governments condemned the extremes of total state ownership, as in the USSR, and laissez faire capitalism, as in America before Franklin Roosevelt. Nazi economics were dirigist, that is, maintainance of private ownership, but under strong state supervision, as well as state monopolies over education, utilities, and transport. In essence, it was a earlier version of Third Way economics advocated by the present day European social democratic parties. The New Deal was a modified version of the corporate state concepts of Mussolini, especially the National Recovery Administration, with its committees of labor, management, and government closely resembling Italian Fascist models. Many of the criticisms of both free market economics and state socialism can be found in Papal encyclicals, such as Rerum Novarum in the 1890s and in the writings of British traditionalist Catholic philosophers such as Hilaire Belloc and G. K. Chesterton. American populists like Tom Watson and William Jennings Bryan also favored a sort of "Third Way" via large scale government intervention, as did Progressives like Theodore Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson.

In America, our "throne and altar" are the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. American tradition is one that exalts individual rights as being God-given and inalienable. Religion, the press, and commerce are to be left alone. If the "Right" is, in the American context, support for our traditions of limited government, personal freedoms, and private property, Naziism/fascism, Communism/socialism, and modern liberalism are all on the "Left." In the American context, not only are John Reed, Abbie Hoffman, and Norman Thomas men of the Left, but so are David Duke, Huey Long, and Charles Coughlin, as well as Bill Clinton, Franklin Roosevelt, and (yes) Richard Nixon.

[Scenic Sounds]

Yeah, really. I see anti-conservative rhetoric written into many shows on TV. If I turned the TV off everytime I see this, I would certainly watch a lot less.

Boy, you're telling me! I feel inundated with radical propaganda whenever the TV's on. What a country, huh?

I did try to watch this show last night, but I fell asleep before the end. I'd give anything to know how it came out. ;-)

[Austin Willard Wright]

Sigh....please keep circulating the bogus Hitler quote from 1935. It only plays into the hands of the enemies of the second amendement. There are plenty of genuine quotes which will do just as well.

[Austin Willard Wright]

I meant please don't keep.

[Rome2000]

But the change from "we'll get the Communists" to "we'll get the terrorists" is hard to understand as anything but a labored attempt at a contemporary analogy. It's altering a key sentence in history to make a polemical point about today

Unfreakinbelievable!

Leftists really do think they are smarter than everyone else.

The jig is up and we're onto them.

Their days are numbered.

[PJ-Comix]

"Our democracy is under attack, and if we're to wage war on these foreign infiltrators, certain civil rights must be suspended."

Hitler would never say "our democracy" or "civil rights" which is almost strictly used in America. I note that Gernon did use that latter term so he pretty much let the cat out of the bag. Gernon was fired for dropping the mask of subtlety when it came to linking Hitler to Bush.

[davisfh]

"I'd give anything to know how it came out. ;-)"

I watched it too. It really just got rolling in the first episode. Old Adolph ends up in jail and, as the story goes, the judges pretty much take it easy on him. It's pretty obvious that they agree with him. Anyway, it's concluded Tuesday evening at 8 PM CDT.

I have no idea how historically accurate this miniseries is, but I must say, he has to be the strangest character to have come along in the past millennium.

[Scenic Sounds]

I have no idea how historically accurate this miniseries is, but I must say, he has to be the strangest character to have come along in the past millennium.

Yeah, he was special, that's for sure. Took himself and his politics a bit too seriously for my taste.

Thanks for the briefing. I'll be watching tomorrow night. :-)

[Lonesome in Massachussets]

I had an eerie foreboding that the "Hilter" on CBS was going to be a slam job on W. I never expected anything this crude and ham-handed. Of course, I didn't bother to watch it, but I trust the reviewers judgment.

[Archimedes2000]

>>>Hitler was not a socialist, and certainly was not left-wing. <<<<

Yes, he was, on both counts. And it's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact. And no, I'm not debating you, I'm telling you. Hitler stated same in mein Kampf.

>>>He never advocated nationalizing the means of production, distribution and exchange;<<<<

Yes, he did.

>>> German capitalism remained unfettered during the Third Reich.<<<<

No, it didn't.

>>> Moreover, the communists and socialists were his most ardent opponents. <<<

Baloney. Hitler's National Socialists and the KDP often voted together in the Reichstag. Hitler's party primarily recruited from among communists. The NSDAP and the KDF together organized the Berlin rail strike of 1932, among many other joint actions.

Why do you confuseniks persist with such ahistorical nonsense?

[Burkeman1]

Of course- trust the TV reviewers- they know best for you dear.

[Burkeman1]

Of course, I must be equally as uniformed seeing as we may not both have the benefit of "Fox" news or the Wall Street Journal. I am sorry for my slight maam.

[Skywalk]

Thank you!!!

I tried to tell some other people insisting that capitalism was unfettered in Nazi Germany that if that was the case, why was Hayek one of the only(and embattled) critics of their policies? If we know anything about Hayek, is that he wouldn't offer economic critiques of a free-market system, even if it had an authoritarian government.

Some people are so into being "fair" that they forget the deeper history of the era and the formation of authoritarian/totalitarian movements. It was also good that you mentioned that, essentially, Europe has embraced the principles of Nazi Germany sans mystical racism and militarism.

[Skywalk]

Thank you!!!

I tried to tell some other people insisting that capitalism was unfettered in Nazi Germany that if that was the case, why was Hayek one of the only(and embattled) critics of their policies? If we know anything about Hayek, is that he wouldn't offer economic critiques of a free-market system, even if it had an authoritarian government.

Some people are so into being "fair" that they forget the deeper history of the era and the formation of authoritarian/totalitarian movements. It was also good that you mentioned that, essentially, Europe has embraced the principles of Nazi Germany sans mystical racism and militarism.

[Skywalk]

Thank you!!!

I tried to tell some other people insisting that capitalism was unfettered in Nazi Germany that if that was the case, why was Hayek one of the only(and embattled) critics of their policies? If we know anything about Hayek, is that he wouldn't offer economic critiques of a free-market system, even if it had an authoritarian government.

Some people are so into being "fair" that they forget the deeper history of the era and the formation of authoritarian/totalitarian movements. It was also good that you mentioned that, essentially, Europe has embraced the principles of Nazi Germany sans mystical racism and militarism.