Where Are the Great Southern Leaders of Old?

ToogoodReports.com ^ | 05/15/2003 | Lee R. Shelton IV

[4mycountry]

[sheltonmac]

These men were citizen-statesmen. I believe many of our problems now stem from the fact that we have a professional class of politicians, not citizen-statesmen. It was to be a sacrifice to serve in congress, not a road to wealth and power.

I think you nailed it. Today, even Southern politicians seem to have little respect for the heritage of the people they "represent."

[4mycountry]

Dang, okchemyst, you beat me to it!!

I was going to suggest he convert to Islam. After all, he'd fit in perfectly there, don't you think?

[WhiskeyPapa]

Thomas DiLorenzo sites this Lee quote to 1870, said to the Governor of Texas. Impeach the source, all you want, but there you go.

DiLorenzo is a lousy source.

I found this:

"Lee had expressed his view of this duty many times in his letters and in his conversations. In writing a former governor of Virginia, he declared, "...The duty of [the South’s] citizens, then, appears to me too plain to admit of doubt. All should unite in honest efforts to obliterate the effects of the war and to restore the blessing of peace."46 He repeated this same sentiment in many letters, and his son later wrote that Lee had "repeatedly" given "similar advice" to other Southerners, friends and strangers alike.47 Now he faced the difficult task of instilling the same understanding of duty into former Confederate soldiers and angry young Southern gentlemen."

See this site for a lot more of the same:

http://www.lee-jackson.org/essay.html

Walt

[4mycountry]

Dang, okchemyst, you beat me to it!!

I was going to suggest he convert to Islam. After all, he'd fit in perfectly there, don't you think? ^_~

[4mycountry]

Dang, okchemyst, you beat me to it!!

I was going to suggest he convert to Islam. After all, he'd fit in perfectly there, don't you think?

[Thumper1960]

I do believe Jefferson Davis was one who advocated guerrilla warfare. From what I recall, Gen. Lee did not. Gen. Lee, for whatever faults some will apply to him, was a gentleman and a patriot. He knew that such tactics would be the ultimate ruin of the South. I don't see Gen. Lee leading his beloved Virginia, or the South, down a road to annihilation.

[4mycountry]

Whoops, I reposted! Sorry!

[4mycountry]

Um, could you pull posts #45 & 46? I accidentally pressed the button to much.....

[Treebeard]

Walt, if you're a Christian, you can be an instrument of God, and I think I found which instrument you are in Judges 15:16.

Can't say if God is using you on FR, but you are the quintessence of the "jawbone of an ass".

[WhiskeyPapa]

I do believe Jefferson Davis was one who advocated guerrilla warfare. From what I recall, Gen. Lee did not. Gen. Lee, for whatever faults some will apply to him, was a gentleman and a patriot. He knew that such tactics would be the ultimate ruin of the South. I don't see Gen. Lee leading his beloved Virginia, or the South, down a road to annihilation.

Davis definitely wanted guerilla war. Lee and Johnston both refused.

Walt

[JohnGalt]

I'll take DiLorenzo over a High School Senior, but to each his own.

[Treebeard]

I venture that the particular geography in which you find yourself at any given time has little effect on the fact that you are a schmuck.

[WhiskeyPapa]

I'll take DiLorenzo over a High School Senior, but to each his own.

DiLOrenzo is a big user of out of context quotes. He is not at all objective or fair.

Walt

[WhiskeyPapa]

This is from the link you provided on DiLorenzo:

He repeated that in a message to Congress in 1862: "I cannot make it any better known than it already is that I strongly favor colonization." Like you said, that's not what we learned in the history books in school."

But here's a letter Lincoln wrote in 1864 to the governor of Massachusetts:

John A Andrew

Executive Mansion,

Washington, February 18. 1864.

Yours of the 12th was received yesterday. If I were to judge from the letter, without any external knowledge, I should suppose that all the colored people South of Washington were struggling to get to Massachusetts; that Massachusetts was anxious to receive and retain the whole of them as permament citizens; and that the United States Government here was interposing and preventing this. But I suppose these are neither really the facts, nor meant to be asserted as true by you. Coming down to what I suppose to be the real facts, you are engaged in trying to raise colored troops for the U. S. and wish to take recruits from Virginia, through Washington, to Massachusetts for that object; and the loyal Governor of Virginia, also trying to raise troops for us, objects to you taking his material away; while we, having to care for all, and being responsible alike to all, have to do as much for him, as we would have to do for you, if he was, by our authority, taking men from Massachusetts to fill up Virginia regiments. No more than this has been intended by me; nor, as I think, by the Secretary of War. There may have been some abuses of this, as a rule, which, if known, should be prevented in future.

If, however, it be really true that Massachusetts wishes to afford a permanent home within her borders, for all, or even a large number of colored persons who will come to her, I shall be only too glad to know it. It would give relief in a very difficult point; and I would not for a moment hinder from going, any person who is free by the terms of the proclamation or any of the acts of Congress."

A. Lincoln

DiLorenzo is pushing an agenda that does not admit of a fair reading of the record.

Walt

[JohnGalt]

I like DiLorenzo as an iconoclast but only time will tell whether I, personally, like him as a historian. I find the risk far too great for his part, to needlessly cite that that quote unless he trusts the source thus I generally trust his quote authorship.

I do find him guilty of a practice I see often with Hitler "scholarship," where there is a lot of selective quoting to prove some preconceived point-- that DiLorenzo may be guilty of, but you must give him credit for citing the court historians who write about Lincoln for not only doing the same but employing that tactic to absurd lengths.

[AppyPappy]

Geez, it's like an Ash Alert

[Treebeard]

Worthwhile to note that the last two quotes were made AFTER Americans were dying in Iraq.

[rebelyell]

Damn, we've both been around a long time to remember Ash! Remember after Jim nuked him, he kept coming back with handles like Ashisalive and almostash. Is he now going by wlat? Hmmmmmm