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President Bush's Boy Feels the Sting of His Boss' Mistake
KeepAndBearArms.com ^ | May 8, 2003 | Sam Cohen

Posted on 05/08/2003 7:53:15 PM PDT by Atlas Sneezed

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To: Beelzebubba
"So help me understand why Bush couldn't just STFU on the issue?"

If it doesn't leave congress, he can claim credit for being on the record ready to sign it while also not having signed it, which would p.o. some gun-rights people a lot less than him signing it. It will muddle the message of the anti-gun crowd in mobilizing their base for the 2004 election, since the president did say he would sign this thing....politics as usual.

If it gets passed in congress, that is another story entirely.
121 posted on 05/09/2003 3:41:45 PM PDT by WoofDog123
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To: WorkingClassFilth
Having said all of that, I would caution you from minimizing the innate distrust that many, many of the grassroots share about the leadership in Washington and at the state levels.

Before a campaign starts people like you describe become disgruntled with electable Republicans. But as the Democrats campaign for their nomination, they produce either of two results. The people you describe either are driven to vote so the leftist democrats do not get elected or they don't vote at all.

The truth is for every right wing pro gun vote garnered by unlimited gun possession, 5 votes from the quesy center are lost.

The fuction of Rove is two fold. First he must try to make the issues such that the far left is driven from the Democratic party and well over half the center is drawn to the Republicans.

Our government is about politicians doing what the majority of voters want. Politicians will always try to do what a majority of voters want. You can con convice a candidate who has teh moxie to win with ideology. You must convince them that a majority of voters share your views.

Many people on the right crave a dictator. They want a candidate that will act on his own opinion, rather than the views of the voters. That is exactly what every dictator does. Here in the states, politicicans do what the voters want. If they don't they get defeated. Many confuse what they think is just and right, with what hte public wants.

If you can mold public opinion to your view, the politicians will follow. For nearly 70 years that is what the Democrats have done. The Right looks for principled leaders.. .that is people who do not respond to the will of the people. The Democrats try to persuade a majority to their view.

It is fruitless to try to convince Rove that your position is right. You have to convince him a majority fo the public supports your view. This is a nation with a representative form of goverment. Elected officials are not supposed to do what they want. They are to represent the views of the majority in moving the levers of power.

122 posted on 05/09/2003 5:26:53 PM PDT by Common Tator
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To: Oberon
If we don't see the result we'd hoped for, well then, why should we stick by the man who won't stick by us?

Because worst case Bush will be neutral in the gun rights fight and the Democrats will take all your guns away and make it a crime to own a BB gun.

Political success is about convincing a majority of the voters to your view. If a large enough majority of the public wants welfare reform even the leftist Clinton will embrace it as his own. He certainly did. If a large enough majority wants all guns banned even the most right wing politician will support total gun bans.

You reveal your stupidity when you think implemeting your positions on issues is done by supporting a politician. It is about convincing the American people to your way of thinking. Ignorance like yours is doomed to failure.


123 posted on 05/09/2003 5:46:41 PM PDT by Common Tator
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To: Common Tator
Thanks for your reply. I agree with much of what you say, but it still stands that in the end, a statesman (vs. a politician) must act on principle.

You are correct, too, that the mechanics of modern elections are, indeed, like selling soap. Unfortunately, the product under debate here is integrity and devotion to the first function of the presidency - upholding the Constitution.

What voter segment is pulled in what direction by what kind of campaign is more the province of advertising than policy and the ultimate manifestation of this was the pandering corruption of Krinton and company.

As many others here have opined, the very least that Bush could have done to play politics and maintain some creedence would have been to just shut up on this issue and let the legislation die under executive silence. Instead, he chose to send a calculated message and this is what disturbs me and a great many more than will be swayed from the Left by such inflammatory ignorance.
124 posted on 05/09/2003 6:40:28 PM PDT by WorkingClassFilth (Defund NPR, PBS and the LSC.)
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To: Common Tator
Ignorance like yours is doomed to failure.

I can't see you winning a great number of friends or allies that way, in any case.

125 posted on 05/09/2003 9:21:14 PM PDT by Oberon (What does it take to make government shrink?)
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To: jeremiah
With the political capital available to GW, he could roll back the spending of the federal govt, and make many changes that could put truth to the years of Republican party promises of smaller govt, and a return to constitutional limits

I Believe, I Believe, I Believe...

126 posted on 05/09/2003 10:51:08 PM PDT by UnBlinkingEye
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