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Artificial Life Experiments Show How Complex Functions Can Evolve
NSF ^ | May 8, 2003 | Staff

Posted on 05/08/2003 10:11:06 AM PDT by Nebullis

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To: AndrewC
Blue means I quoted someone.

And all this time I thought it meant "skip this post".

701 posted on 05/09/2003 8:24:38 AM PDT by js1138
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To: js1138
You assume that there are no lawyers with technical training.

No, I assume that the lawyers do not do the designing.

702 posted on 05/09/2003 8:25:43 AM PDT by AndrewC
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To: AndrewC
But what you WROTE is:

I don't think a lawyer wrote this---

703 posted on 05/09/2003 8:28:22 AM PDT by js1138
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To: plusone
I've yet to get a good answer from the Evo's about how such a complex system as vision can evolve by chance.

OK, A single mutation makes a nerve cell respond to light.
The ability to detect dark/light allows a critter to duck when a sharow passes over it, very slightly decreasing the odds of getting eaten.

A single mutation increases the number of nerve cells in a patch that sense light.
This slightly improves the ability dodge predators, very slightly decreasing the odds of getting eaten.

A single mutation puts a slight dimple in the patch of nerve cells that sense light.
Now the rim of the patch shadows part of the sensitive area when the sigal is coming from the side. The patch now has some directional sensing ability. once again, this slightly improves the ability dodge predators, very slightly decreasing the odds of getting eaten.

A single mutation magnifys the dimple.
Now the dimple looks like the pit on a pit viper. The pit now good directional sensing ability. In a snake this greatly improves the ability dodge predators and strike prey, a very significant enhancement to survival.

The dimple gets deeper and more spherical, the top surface starts to close down forming a primative pinhole camera. Now the proto eye can image.

If this continues the eye closes off and becomes useless.

BUT an eye with a transparent thin layer of skin covering the pinhole is an improvement as the sensitive surfaces are now protcted from sand and grit getting in and damaging them.

A bulge in the layer makes a primative lens, providing a clearer image

and so on...

704 posted on 05/09/2003 8:32:03 AM PDT by null and void
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To: js1138
And all this time I thought it meant "skip this post".

Well, golly you learn something new every day.

705 posted on 05/09/2003 8:33:22 AM PDT by AndrewC
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To: AndrewC
Yup! The lawyer wrote that. The engineer(s) helped a bit, but it's pure patent legalese.

(An engineer would have just drawn the picture...)

706 posted on 05/09/2003 8:35:43 AM PDT by null and void
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To: js1138
But what you WROTE is:

Yes, but the words I wrote were in black. The blue words were from the U.S. Patent number 6,404,245.

P.S. I get lazy when it is obvious I am quoting something, such as a dictionary entry.

707 posted on 05/09/2003 8:37:41 AM PDT by AndrewC
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To: CobaltBlue
I've seen on a Jewish website that some (maybe most) Jews believe that God created the Devil to do His will but it's antithetical to the Christian understanding of God.

You might modify 'Christian' with the adjectives 'most modern'. Manichaean and gnostic Christians had very different ideas about the relationship between God, the devil, good, and evil. The gnostic Gospels and other parts of the New Testament Apocrypha, some parts of which are more ancient than most of the orthodox Gospels, are worth reading. The early Church had a vast diversity of belief about these matters; orthodox Christianity managed to stamp out most of it, although I think there are still small gnostic Christian sects in the Middle East (Persia, perhaps?)

708 posted on 05/09/2003 8:38:09 AM PDT by Right Wing Professor
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To: AndrewC
A 17 transistor circuit will fit ANYONE'S definition of compact.

And so does 9.

What part of better performanace equals more market share are you having trouble with???

The incremental cost of 6 more transistors is maybe 1/10¢, the improved performance adds a couple dollars to the sales price, and quadruples the market share.

(The difference between the old price and market share, and the new higher price and increased market share is called profit, BTW)...

709 posted on 05/09/2003 8:44:41 AM PDT by null and void
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To: js1138
Are you seriously suggesting that adding a dozen transistors will affect the physical size of an IC?

I think he is...

710 posted on 05/09/2003 8:45:47 AM PDT by null and void
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To: js1138
You have AC so rattled he forgot to post in blue.

sorry.

711 posted on 05/09/2003 8:46:55 AM PDT by null and void
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To: null and void
The incremental cost of 6 more transistors is maybe 1/10¢, the improved performance adds a couple dollars to the sales price, and quadruples the market share.

The design stipulated compact.

712 posted on 05/09/2003 8:47:46 AM PDT by AndrewC
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To: null and void
I think he is...

I have no doubt you think so, but you are wrong. I just understand that people use words for a reason. Words like compact.

713 posted on 05/09/2003 8:49:51 AM PDT by AndrewC
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To: AndrewC
Wrong issue. You quoted a technical description of a circuit and asserted it wasn't written by lawyers. I say there is no reason to believe it wasn't written by lawers. Engineers draw diagrams. They do not usually go around saying the cathode bone's connected to the ground bone.

I'm sure that any Freeper practicing engineer will correct me if I'm wrong, but I suspect that most circuits are up and running long before anyone writes a verbal description. That would be done by a technical writer, who might be a lawyer or work under the supervision of a lawyer.

714 posted on 05/09/2003 8:51:16 AM PDT by js1138
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To: dd5339
There are no missing links with this technology.

Oh - yes there are - the missing link is
those who think
things
came
before
thoughts
and who think
this computer program
evolved
without thought
715 posted on 05/09/2003 8:51:25 AM PDT by kkindt (knightforhire.com)
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To: null and void
the improved performance adds a couple dollars to the sales price, and quadruples the market share.

Please provide your evidence for this assertion. I mean the exact performance enhancement across the design stipulations.

716 posted on 05/09/2003 8:51:36 AM PDT by AndrewC
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To: null and void
Actually, Asian Indians are caucasian...

I was using the Pat Buchanan definition of white:)

717 posted on 05/09/2003 8:52:44 AM PDT by Grando Calrissian
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To: yall
View patent here:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6404245.WKU.&OS=PN/6404245&RS=PN/6404245
718 posted on 05/09/2003 8:54:35 AM PDT by null and void
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To: webstersII
I think the thought that we don't "need" athiests like you here" is interesting because it indicates that at bottom an athiest is irrational since he thinks that things came before things and hence his thoughts are just the result of things bumping into each other in the night of nothingness and so his thoughts shared here are really not needed for rational discussion - perhaps that's what is meant? If so I agree - we don't need the input of athiests to be rational since there thoughts just are the result of this:

once upon a nothing something blew apart

That's what athiest believe and their thoughts all arise out of the abyss of nonsense.

719 posted on 05/09/2003 8:55:23 AM PDT by kkindt (knightforhire.com)
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To: js1138
I'm sure that any Freeper practicing engineer will correct me if I'm wrong, but I suspect that most circuits are up and running long before anyone writes a verbal description. That would be done by a technical writer, who might be a lawyer or work under the supervision of a lawyer.

Correct.

720 posted on 05/09/2003 8:56:33 AM PDT by null and void
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