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Artificial Life Experiments Show How Complex Functions Can Evolve
NSF ^ | May 8, 2003 | Staff

Posted on 05/08/2003 10:11:06 AM PDT by Nebullis

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To: All
Allow me to offer a hearty "Happy Mother's Day" to all you mothers out there! And anyone with a mother! Let's CELEBRATE!

Happy
Mother's
Day!

1,221 posted on 05/11/2003 4:37:21 PM PDT by balrog666 (When in doubt, tell the truth. - Mark Twain)
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To: AndrewC
>>Does your database include data on pending patent applications?

The database only includes data on Published Applications in accordance with the 18 month pre-grant publication rules. Pending patent applications where the applicat has elected to not publish prior to grant remain confidential.<<
http://appft1.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/help/helpfaq.html#includes_pending
1,222 posted on 05/11/2003 4:38:21 PM PDT by CobaltBlue
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To: PatrickHenry
Granted, but it's awfully hard to "ignore" someone who's getting ready to pounce on my own field of study. Even weirder, what in the world does genetic programming have to do with evolution/religion? Self-organizing algorithms have been around a long time and carries no theological implications in any way.
1,223 posted on 05/11/2003 4:41:43 PM PDT by Nataku X (Never give Bush any power you wouldn't want to give to Hillary.)
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To: Nakatu X
Even weirder, what in the world does genetic programming have to do with evolution/religion?

It's just pointless disruption for disruption's sake. It only succeeds if you respond.

1,224 posted on 05/11/2003 4:48:30 PM PDT by PatrickHenry (Felix, qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas.)
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To: Nakatu X
I am not "trying again". I showed evidence of a cubic function generator by these authors almost from scratch (rather than using a patent) using genetic algorithms, which disproves your implied claim that someone's committing fraud here.

Blather on all you want, there is still no evidence of the 17 transistor circuit outperforming a specific patented theory. Your red herring won't work. Produce the evidence for the specific topic or slink away.

1,225 posted on 05/11/2003 6:25:37 PM PDT by AndrewC
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To: CobaltBlue
Nice try at a pirouette.

You made these statements

Are you not aware that pending patent applications cannot be searched, only granted patents?
According to my husband, who has been a patent examiner for 15 years, and is a Primary Examiner, you cannot search applications for pending patents.

You did not write.

Are you not aware that pending patent applications, in some cases, cannot be searched?
Nor did you write.

According to my husband, who has been a patent examiner for 15 years, and is a Primary Examiner, you cannot search applications for all pending patents.

1,226 posted on 05/11/2003 6:33:16 PM PDT by AndrewC
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To: PatrickHenry
It's just pointless disruption for disruption's sake. It only succeeds if you respond.

It is pointless to you, because, of course, you cannot produce the evidence for the assertion that was made. That request is common. Back up what you assert. Now the question concerns specific circuits and a specific assertion. "Put up or shut up" is a common rejoinder. The fact that you pot shot from the sidelines is evidence of your lack of character.

1,227 posted on 05/11/2003 6:39:16 PM PDT by AndrewC
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To: AndrewC
correction -- outperforming a specific patented circuit
1,228 posted on 05/11/2003 6:41:43 PM PDT by AndrewC
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To: AndrewC
I see you're attempting to pretend that you didn't argue that patent applications, in general, are searchable.

Which is, of course, untrue. You screwed up and are too proud to admit it.

Too bad for you.
1,229 posted on 05/11/2003 8:13:27 PM PDT by CobaltBlue
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To: CobaltBlue
I see you're attempting to pretend that you didn't argue that patent applications, in general, are searchable.

Which is, of course, untrue. You screwed up and are too proud to admit it.

Too bad for you.

Another pirouette! You are the one that mentioned patent applications first.

Why otherwise would you write the following erroneous statement?

Are you not aware that pending patent applications cannot be searched, only granted patents?

Boldly trying another red herring tack, are you?

Still with no, zip, zero, nada, evidence for the specific assertion made on specific circuits, in a specific article. I'm sure they have something but what is it? This is akin to the rapid speciating worms that didn't.

1,230 posted on 05/11/2003 8:37:09 PM PDT by AndrewC
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To: AndrewC
I am back from a wonderful weekend and I see you on here arguing with people that obviously have a clue, whereas it is obvious that you do not.

Same old, same old, I guess.
1,231 posted on 05/11/2003 9:55:14 PM PDT by Aric2000 (Are you on Grampa Dave's team? I am!! $5 a month is all it takes, come join!!!)
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To: Aric2000
I am back from a wonderful weekend and I see you on here arguing with people that obviously have a clue, whereas it is obvious that you do not.

Almost funny, you need work on your patter!

No doubt you think the following is true despite the evidence that I produced.

... pending patent applications cannot be searched, only granted patents?

1,232 posted on 05/11/2003 10:06:37 PM PDT by AndrewC
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To: Aric2000
BTW, you pathologically misinterpret what is going on.
1,233 posted on 05/11/2003 10:09:59 PM PDT by AndrewC
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To: AndrewC
Lack of ammunition -- brain blogs --- borgs !
1,234 posted on 05/11/2003 10:26:42 PM PDT by f.Christian (( Knowledge (( philosophy )) // Technology (( science // creation )) ... evolution is bunk ! ! ))
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To: AndrewC
Some can, and some can't, because some will not publish, nor create until a patent is issued.

A big majority cannot be searched, but SOME can be, all depends on the person asking for the patent, and where they go to seek the patent.

Some offices are online, and others are not, some can be searched, and others cannot be.

But then again, I have never searched for a patent pending, so I really would not know from personal experience, only from those that I know who have applied for a patent.
1,235 posted on 05/11/2003 10:30:17 PM PDT by Aric2000 (Are you on Grampa Dave's team? I am!! $5 a month is all it takes, come join!!!)
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To: Aric2000
Some can, and some can't, because some will not publish, nor create until a patent is issued.

Okay, but the statement did not limit itself. In any case, the original topics of discussions were two. One involving the cubic function and a granted patent to a human designed circuit. This assertion was made by a poster

Deal with it. In this case, it made a cubic function generator circuit which outperforms the best that all electronic engineers were capable of producing in all the history of electronics.

The circuit at the top was patented in 2000, and is the current state of the art. The circuit at the bottom was produced by pure unaided evolution, and outperforms the human version.

I asked for evidence of this performance edge. None has been produced. I found the patent and examined the circuit and it involves 5 transistors and 4 diodes. The circuit used in the "runoff" has 9 transistors. Somebody changed something. Despite this not one graph comparing the two circuits has been produced here. I suspect that the performance edge is a paper product. Something that the emulating program has produced. Why do I surmise that? Because in evolving the circuit I doubt that each individual circuit was constructed in order to measure its performance of the cubic function. That would be impractical.

From the article ---A genetic programming run typically spawns a population of tens or hundreds of thousands of individuals that evolve over dozens or hundreds of generations. A weeklong run on a laptop computer is sufficient to produce half of the human-competitive results listed in the box on the preceding page; however, all six of the inventions patented after 2000 required more horsepower than that.

The second topic relates to the assertion that many patents have been issued for inventions produced by genetic programming. The same article that had the cubic function circuit in it also made mention of a patent application ---

We have filed a patent application that covers both the new rules and the new controller topologies. If (as we expect) the patent is granted, we believe that it will be the first one granted for an invention created by genetic programming.

This was in the article with the date of February 2003. Clearly, it has not been granted. It does not matter if it is still pending for it to be evidence that there are no patents for inventions created by genetic programming. That still leaves the ability to produce the evidence of many such inventions, but no one has done that.

1,236 posted on 05/11/2003 10:57:35 PM PDT by AndrewC
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To: AndrewC
These programs do not face a problem which "real" evolution would, namely extinction of species. It is never an option for the run to go extinct.
1,237 posted on 05/11/2003 11:02:26 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: AndrewC
You are going to make me go search for those patents aren't you?

Geez, they exist AndrewC, and pretending they don't because I can't get you a patent number RIGHT NOW, is not going to make that fact go away.

Give me a couple of days, I have other things I have to do with my time, and I will do my best to get the relevant info for you.

But the fact of the matter is, even after I give you the patent number and the info that goes with it, you are going to go on a tangent about how it still doesn't prove that evolutionary/genetic programming actually works.

I know you, and your mind is already convinced of the answer, and no matter how many facts are layed out before you, your mind will not be changed.
1,238 posted on 05/11/2003 11:04:54 PM PDT by Aric2000 (Are you on Grampa Dave's team? I am!! $5 a month is all it takes, come join!!!)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
It is never an option for the run to go extinct.

They never try to evolve a "TUNABLE INTEGRATED ACTIVE FILTER" using rocks, ham sandwiches, and walnuts with a blow torch as the energy source. Ever wonder why?

1,239 posted on 05/11/2003 11:08:44 PM PDT by AndrewC
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To: Aric2000
You are going to make me go search for those patents aren't you?

There are genetic programming patents, but they involve genetic programming. There is even a recent application from L'Oreal that is so broadly written so that if the patent is granted they can charge anybody with patent infringement for any type of computed advice. They included genetic programming, soft programming, heuristic programming, and the kitchen sink. As to the genetic programming patents, they are for Koza's techniques and implementation of the genetic software.

1,240 posted on 05/11/2003 11:15:48 PM PDT by AndrewC
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