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Artificial Life Experiments Show How Complex Functions Can Evolve
NSF ^ | May 8, 2003 | Staff

Posted on 05/08/2003 10:11:06 AM PDT by Nebullis

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To: Doctor Stochastic
Cæsar flourished around 709AUC.

It does my conservative heart good to see someone still using the ab urbe condita Roman calendar.

1,181 posted on 05/11/2003 4:18:48 AM PDT by PatrickHenry (Felix, qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas.)
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To: RightWingNilla
He predicts that Moore's law will allow us to have computers which can perfectly model the human brain neuron by neuron within fifty years.

Interesting prediction considering we don't know everything about what neurons do. There are folks who argue that it is the interconnections rather than the neurons that are key. The interconnections change with learning, and we don't have a good model for this process.

1,182 posted on 05/11/2003 7:13:52 AM PDT by js1138
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To: AndrewC
You have managed to demonstrate that we don't know the status of the patent application. Big Whup. If you can get a patent for toast you can get one for a circuit improvement, most likely.

Is this part of the argument really important to you? What will become of your argument if, in a dozen years, there are many such patents? Are you staking your position on the bet that this won't happen?

If so can we come back at a later time and and ask you to retract your arguments? And if you aren't willing to stake your position on the lack of patents, why are you making such a big deal out of the fact that no one at FR can point to the patent?

1,183 posted on 05/11/2003 7:21:58 AM PDT by js1138
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To: js1138
What will become of your argument if, in a dozen years, there are many such patents? Are you staking your position on the bet that this won't happen?

If a frog had a glass ass, it would bust it a hoppin'.

Frankly, arguing against an assertion made in the present with present facts, is not weakened by a hypothetical future. The assertion was essentially, there are lots of "A". I demonstrated that there are apparently no "A"(at least in the U.S.). If one can patent a swinging technique, then I suppose one should be able to patent a kludge no matter how well it functions.

1,184 posted on 05/11/2003 7:32:57 AM PDT by AndrewC
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To: AndrewC
I suppose one should be able to patent a kludge no matter how well it functions.

When the per-compononent cost of a circuit approaches zero, any improvement in performance is an improvement.

I think if you look around at the world you will see such things a digital voltmeters at Radio Shack. They replace much simpler analog designs without providing much usable improvement in accuracy or reliability (at least not for the typical Radio Shack customer). This observation could be repeated thousands of times among the everyday objects we live with. Labeling an object with a pejorative name is no more usefull that labeling a person with a pejorative name.

In alle this discussion, you have failed to address the only important point being argued -- that is the the circuits designed by the computer program have features that could that could not be designed by the people who wrote the program.

1,185 posted on 05/11/2003 7:45:01 AM PDT by js1138
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To: donh
Experience hath shown that all cats are either alive or not alive (dead).

Are green cats dead or alive?

All cats have the potential of being green, if they are dead long enough...

1,186 posted on 05/11/2003 9:19:20 AM PDT by null and void
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To: RightWingNilla
Kurtzweil claims, people will be able to scan their brains and establish in-silico versions of themselves...essentially immortality!

I want my copy a little less depressed, and a little more employed...

1,187 posted on 05/11/2003 9:21:12 AM PDT by null and void
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To: donh
Are green cats dead or alive?

Vacuously true.

1,188 posted on 05/11/2003 9:23:05 AM PDT by longshadow
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To: f.Christian
color blind people don't see color ...

Total color blindness is quite rare. Most "color blind" people see a different pallet of colors, where red and green look the same.

the dead know nothing !

Applies to lots of living people I know...

1,189 posted on 05/11/2003 9:24:31 AM PDT by null and void
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To: Michael121
It refers to all events.

If 10 different people see a car accident there ARE 10 different accounts.

Which has NOTHING whatever to do with Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle. The ten different accounts of the car accident are NOT the result of not knowing the precise similtaneous momenta and locations of the cars.

1,190 posted on 05/11/2003 9:28:41 AM PDT by longshadow
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To: PatrickHenry
It does my conservative heart good to see someone still using the ab urbe condita Roman calendar.

Dude, you really need to get out more...

1,191 posted on 05/11/2003 9:28:42 AM PDT by null and void
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To: longshadow
Durn! You broke my funkle...
1,192 posted on 05/11/2003 9:29:21 AM PDT by null and void (*sigh*)
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To: Michael121
As you have stated but yet not answered. It is up to you to prove the absence of GOD. If there is a God then we did not evolve. I await your proof. You must prove to me there is not a diety. We cannot have both. I am the opponent to your science. You are the opponent of my Faith.

What on Earth are you talking about?

The only thing I have said is that you are incorrect about your use of Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle, and that you mis-spelled his name.

If that somehow impinges upon your spiritual beliefs, you must have an extraordinarily odd set of beliefs.

1,193 posted on 05/11/2003 9:33:48 AM PDT by longshadow
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To: js1138
Are you staking your position on the bet that this won't happen?

Oh come on, you know better. They've got a million nits to pick.

1,194 posted on 05/11/2003 10:05:39 AM PDT by edsheppa
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To: edsheppa
bttt
1,195 posted on 05/11/2003 10:51:37 AM PDT by f.Christian (( Knowledge (( philosophy )) // Technology (( science // creation )) ... evolution is bunk ! ! ))
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To: AndrewC
>>I guess that means that patent applications can be searched.<<

According to my husband, who has been a patent examiner for 15 years, and is a Primary Examiner, you cannot search applications for pending patents. You can search applications once a patent is granted.

You might try searching through European patent applications - those are published. Sometimes inventors apply simultaneously for American and European patents -- but certainly not always.



1,196 posted on 05/11/2003 11:09:06 AM PDT by CobaltBlue
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To: longshadow
If that somehow impinges upon your spiritual beliefs, you must have an extraordinarily odd set of beliefs.

I think we can leave off the conditional portion of that statement.

1,197 posted on 05/11/2003 11:10:29 AM PDT by balrog666 (When in doubt, tell the truth. - Mark Twain)
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To: js1138
Interesting prediction considering we don't know everything about what neurons do.

Kurtzweil does a lot of handwaving on the biology side, but he claims that computers at least should have the capability to exactly simulate the brain.

By the year 2100, everyone will have ported out of their carbon based forms. We will all be converted to software. The creationists will love it.

1,198 posted on 05/11/2003 11:26:57 AM PDT by RightWingNilla
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To: null and void
I want my copy a little less depressed, and a little more employed...

Certainly! Just adjust a few settings on the Penfield Mood Organ....

1,199 posted on 05/11/2003 11:29:05 AM PDT by RightWingNilla
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To: AndrewC
BTW, I have no idea what good it would do you to see a published patent -- the mere fact that something is patented is not proof that it works. The USPTO hasn't required working models for many, many years.

So, given your skepticism, the only way to prove what is claimed is to actually build the thing in question and test it yourself.

As many have already said, write to the inventor, explain your position, and see if he is willing to assist you in your quest for knowledge.
1,200 posted on 05/11/2003 11:36:11 AM PDT by CobaltBlue
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