Cop takes 'midnight photos' of teacher's classroom

Times Argus ^ | David Delcore

[Old Professer]

Sorry, but I don't like cops sneaking around surreptitiously.

I'm with you, he should have to do his sneaking around in the open, just like the rest of us.

[fml]

Overblown because the cop did not go into any drawers or file cabinets. He photed what was out and on display. Is your argument only that he did it during off hours.

[RonF]

Our school district has restricted people from just showing up and going to their kids room unaccompanied due to some unfortunate situations with custody disputes, where the non-custodial parent shows up and tries to grab their kid.

[grapeape]

I'll try this example again...abuse of his police powers?

Why you were wrong then and lo and behold, You are still wrong. You tried to change the premise of the entire thread. You have not gotten away with it. No one who reads this thread will get that idea. What are going to say next? That we want cops to be able to enter the white House and torcher baby sea turtles. Stop it.

Liberal Socialists trying to teach that somehow people who promote self-determination and capitalism are evil while promoting Castro are the laughing stock of the whole world!!! Now it's out in the open, again, for everyone to see.

[longtermmemmory]

so if he took pictures through the window nobody would care?

[Freedom2specul8]

Are the majority of parents afraid to do things like checkup and document situations in their school in broad daylight? Do we need to spread some aggressive activism amongst parents are what?

[Doctor Stochastic]

Conservatives believe that Conservative Ends justify any Means whatever.

Liberals believe that Liberal Ends justify any Means whatever.

[dirtboy]

Overblown because the cop did not go into any drawers or file cabinets. He photed what was out and on display.

That was in specific response to the claim by grapeape that a cop can enter any public space whenever and wherever he wants. I believe you would disagree with that sentiment.

Is your argument only that he did it during off hours.

Actually, he did it while he was on-duty - and he was outside his jurisdiction at the time. There are other ways to accomplish this - parents of the students in question should demand to see the classroom and petition the school board. If the school board is unresponsive, since the article states that the community is conservative by nature, it should be easy to replace them. That is the way this is done, not by a rogue cop abusing his powers while on the taxpayer dime in pursuit of his own agenda.

[RonF]

The runner is usually a kid who's the equivalent of a hall monitor, spending their study hall in the office.

[dirtboy]

Conservatives believe that Conservative Ends justify any Means whatever.
Liberals believe that Liberal Ends justify any Means whatever.

And some of us are scared by both - including the founders, who drafted a certain set of ten amendments to deal specifically with this problem...

[CMAC51]

"Because there was no crime committed, and the cop was on duty. As for yourself, had you done this, you'd be arrested. Even though the school is a public building, you have no right to be there without permission. Don't get me wrong, I think the teacher is a slimeball, but as far as I know he didn't break any laws. The cops are for enforcing laws."



Here and in previous comments you assume that the individual entered the building illegally and then used his position as a police officer to gain access to the room. The article does not support that supposition. According to the officers account he entered the building through available access and sought out the person responsible for control of the facility at that time. He convinced the person to provide access to the classroom.

It is quite legal to enter a public building, even after hours, through available open access with the intent of seeking out the person repsonsible for control of the faciltiy. The officer may not have used his official position to coerce the custodian. The article does not describe what form of convincing took place. They may already have been acquatances. After all he once worked there. The custodian may have been sympathetic. The custodian may be guilty of violating rules or policy, but the officer is only out of line if he used his law enforcement position to leverage the custodian. The article does not indicate this one way or another. You are forced to infer it to support your position.

[dirtboy]

Are the majority of parents afraid to do things like checkup and document situations in their school in broad daylight? Do we need to spread some aggressive activism amongst parents are what?

Bingo.

[f.Christian]

On various threads ...

I see these aclu freaks only supporting the infringement of our rights -- speech -- religion ---

demonizing anyone who defends them ...

be back with some examples !

[MineralMan]

"Our school district has restricted people from just showing up and going to their kids room unaccompanied due to some unfortunate situations with custody disputes, where the non-custodial parent shows up and tries to grab their kid."

Very wise of them. Our schools have an entrance for the public that takes them to the schools's administration office. That is the only entrance that the public is allowed to use. Large signs make this very clear at all the other entrances.

Even as a regular volunteer at the local schools, I must enter through the administration offices _each_ time I come to the school. I get a nice little badge to wear that permits me to go where I need to go to do my volunteer teaching.

I wouldn't have it any other way.

[dirtboy]

so if he took pictures through the window nobody would care?

He still would have been trespassing on school grounds, and most are posted, especially for after dark...

[Freedom2specul8]

"parents of the students in question should demand to see the classroom "

BS! IF the parents are told they can't see the classroom..it's time to take the kids out of school. THat's crazy to have to demand anything. School's don't own the kids for 6 or so hours a day, nor do they own the rights to entry.

[r9etb]

Again, if you have any authority to support your opinion, please show it to me.

Well, first off, we have an officer outside of his jurisdiction on personal business. Clearly there is no law-enforcement justification for his being inside the building.

We also have Mott's word that he simply walked into the building, and also that he was doing so as a private citizen.

The question then reduces to: does a private citizen have a right to enter a public school building outside of normal business hours without the consent of the school administration?

The answer to that appears to be NO.

For example, here is a link to how one Vermont school district defines trespass (under VSA 3705).

Their policy states that (f) Any individual on these properties after 8 o'clock at night, except at school sponsored activities or with previous permission, may be arrested for trespass. Any group or organization holding an unapproved meeting in or on school property will also be subject to prosecution for trespass. In either case, the responsible school authorities are to notify the police at once. Students holding unauthorized meetings in violation to this stated policy will be subject to suspension (and a hearing before the Board of Directors).

There now -- we have a cite to the relevant statute, as applied to a school in Vermont, saying that Mott would have been trespassing in that district.

I leave it to you to ferret through the Barre City School Policies to see if they have an all-hours open-door policy. Good luck.

[Old Professer]

Police do this all the time. They go to an apartment building and the stupid super just lets them into your apartment. This happens all the time. Now, the evidence wouldn't be admissable in court, but it still happens.

You have a constitutional right to privacy while a government entity does not.

[Freedom2specul8]

PS:, I wasn't making that bs comments towards you by the way..just towards the idea..

[ValerieUSA]

Second, the cop entered a locked space outside his jurisdiction while on duty and entered that space without the permission of the school board or the school administrators.

Why is the room locked? To keep the public from seeing what is on display? No, the room should never be locked for that purpose - that is wrong. The teacher and students do not have any presumption of privacy from observation or exemption from accountability.
The room is locked to protect the personal property of the teacher and the students from being vandalized or stolen. Allowing a citizen who asks permission to see the display to do so, does not violate any principle of protecting personal property.
I do have a problem with seeking permission from a school board before being allowed to see what is taught in the classroom. That's taking government authoritarianism too far.