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Neal Boortz and ADD
www.boortz.com ^ | various | Neal Boortz

Posted on 04/29/2003 8:40:41 AM PDT by Houmatt

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To: Houmatt
"Neal Boortz comes along and validates it" Dr. Breggin has probably been at it a lot longer than Neal.... Peter Breggin and Psychiatric Drug Facts
221 posted on 04/29/2003 8:02:44 PM PDT by tutstar
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To: TomHarkinIsNotFromIowa
Catholic nuns wearing big habbits scared the heck out of me back in the late 60s... I didn't dare act out of line.

Many kids these days need to experience the power of a good habbit.

Trajan88; TAMU Class of '88

222 posted on 04/29/2003 8:09:39 PM PDT by Trajan88
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To: drjimmy
Russell Barkley is no quack. He's just a 2-bit drug pusher who wants to drug more kids, not less. From his "research," it looks to me like he wants to drug everybody. His latest and greatest hypothesis is that a whole range of adult behaviors such as bad driving or promiscuous sex is due to "undiagnosed childhood ADHD." He's your hero, not mine.
223 posted on 04/29/2003 8:21:04 PM PDT by Al B.
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To: Zavien Doombringer
I am not too familiar with Boortz but for reasons other than ideological, I don't know what his own experience with ADD/ADHD is. But I can tell you I have had 7 years worth of experience dealing with an ADD child. Our daughter is ADD. (I still feel she is AD/HD but that's an expanded topic.) Adderol has been a miracle drug for her.

From the time my daughter was about 4 we had noticed that she could not keep her mind on one task for more than a few seconds. This girl has been in an excellent Catholic school since first grade. However, her conduct grades for grades 1-5 were consistently unsatisfactory. She has had detention because of conduct, forgotten homework, lost homework, lost anything and everything, more times than we care to remember.

The last straw was when she stayed last summer with one of her out-of-state aunts for a couple of weeks. The original plans were for her to stay a week or so with the aunt, then another week or so with her grandmother. Since they only see our daughter maybe every other year when either we go up there or they come here (we're 1200 miles apart), they were not completely prepared for having an ADD child staying with them. Her grandmother cut her stay short saying she couldn't handle her. It was an unpleasant experience for everyone involved. And, it was then that, after debating for more than a year, we finally decided to have her tested for ADD.

As we suspected, she is ADD and was placed on 10mg Adderol, the lowest dosage available. Subsequently, the dosage was upped to the 15mg dosage once a day. The change has been absolutely amazing. This child has gone from being a C - D student to straight A's the last report card. Her conduct grades are mostly "Outstanding" with the balance being "Satisfactory".

I don't appreciate in the least Boortz' statements that ADD is a parenting problem. To be nice about it, unless Boortz has an ADD or AD/HD child, he doesn't have the first clue what he is talking about. Boortz tips his hand about his motives when he talks about the government and docile citizens. Boortz is not concerned about children, and children's welfare. He really appears to, for some unknown reason, fear being drugged by the government and is using ADD as some sort of front.

I will put my and my child's mother's parenting up against anyone anytime. You will NOT find a better home than what we have here. We have tried every approach possible to get our daughter to focus. We have had serious around the dinner table talks about personal responsibility. We have both had serious one on one talks with her about personal responsibility. When "being nice" hasn't worked, she has been grounded from her favorite things more times than we care to remember. We have prayed as a family together about this problem. She has told us she has prayed in church about it. She is as aware as any of us that this is a problem. I have no doubt that she wants to be able to focus but just does not have the ability to focus for any extended period of time.

Yes, I suppose if we wanted, we could become absolute tyrants for parents where every single lost train of thought by our daughter would incur serious consequences but at what cost? If we wanted, we could scar the poor girl for life and she would hate her parents for being parental tyrants. And, yes, she might comply for short periods as she has with our "nice" approaches but the compliance would be out of fear. Is that really fixing the problem? Not hardly. This type parenting is extremely destructive and probably just as importantly, it wastes valuable time in this child's life.

She is in sixth grade now. She is 6 years away from starting college. Her grades need to be maintained where they are now so she can go to college in order to give her the best chance of making it in the world. If Adderol gets her there then that's all the better. Hopefully, as the doctor said, she will outgrow this when she matures and will not need the Adderol.

Mr. Boortz points out that Dr. Bob Jacobs "correctly points out that there is no proof that ADHD exists." At the same time, there is often no physical proof that headaches exist. People will report the symptoms of a headache but often even a CAT scan will show no reason for the headaches. This by no means indicates that someone's head really does not hurt. And, when someone has a headache, they can also take two tablets of acetylsalicylic acid, more commonly know as Aspirin. Scientists believe that aspirin's ability to reduce the body's production of hormone-like "prostaglandins" is the reason for both its effectiveness in relieving pain and reducing inflammation... but they don't know. Similarly, no one knows exactly why Adderol and Ritalin work, they just do. I don't know what kind of proof Mr. Boortz wants, or if he even wants proof.

As a side note, our daughter is not completely free of losing her trains of thought. She is still an "air-head" at times. She still loses things. She still forgets what she is supposed to be doing. The difference has been that the degree and frequency of these lapses has decreased dramatically. We have learned that you cannot give this child a list of things to be done in order to complete a task. She simply loses it after the second step. Last Christmas, after a minor emergency here when her mother received an electrical shock and had to go to the emergency room, I asked her to help me clean up some of the things that were broken in the accident. The task involved about five steps that I started to describe to her. After the second step, I could tell from the blank look on her face that I had lost her. I then wrote down each step for her. She completed the task perfectly. I see this as more "proof" that ADD exists. I suppose if we continued to increase her dosage she would be laser focused and maybe "docile". But that is not what we're after.

So, I take it very personally when someone like Boortz insults my parenting by insinuating that ADD is a parenting problem. We have a very fine home. You will find no better. And, our daughter is doing fine, Mr. Boortz. Thank you very much.

Now, flame away!

224 posted on 04/29/2003 9:34:17 PM PDT by DaGman
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To: TomHarkinIsNotFromIowa
"I'm Presbyterian. Are there any Catholic School Kids that went to school in the 50's and 60's or before ritalin? How did the nuns handle kids like this?"

Being the product of a Catholic School in the '60's I can answer this. The nuns were without mercy. Lots of yardsticks across the knuckles. Lots of yanked ears. Lots of public humiliations in front of the class.

My brother and I long ago discussed this very thing. We went through the list of the problem kids when we were in grade school. To the person, every one of them ended up in prison, and two are still there to this day.

225 posted on 04/29/2003 9:52:24 PM PDT by DaGman
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To: NealBoortz
Thought you might want to respond to this.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/902460/posts?page=224#224
226 posted on 04/29/2003 10:08:09 PM PDT by DaGman
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To: Zavien Doombringer
...but mine is on aderal (sp?)...
Adderall, formerly called Obetrol (Adderall had previously been approved and marketed by another company under the name of Obetrol(R), indicated for exogenous obesity and ADHD.)...an Amphetamine Mixed Salts
EACH TABLET CONTAINS

5mg

10mg

20mg

30mg

Dextroamphetamine Saccharate 1.25 mg 2.5 mg 5 mg 7.5 mg
Amphetamine Aspartate 1.25 mg 2.5 mg 5 mg 7.5 mg
Dextroamphetamine Sulfate USP 1.25 mg 2.5 mg 5 mg 7.5 mg
Amphetamine Sulfate USP 1.25 mg 2.5 mg 5 mg 7.5 mg
Total equivalence 3.13 mg 6.3 mg 12.6 mg 18.8 mg

Your child is being prescribed amphetamines!
227 posted on 04/30/2003 5:46:59 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: philman_36
Holy COW! And was used for obesity! No wonder my girl has no wieght gain...Those on a diet take note!

Thanks for the info!!!

Amphetamines, man...I never thought of that!
228 posted on 04/30/2003 6:27:11 AM PDT by Zavien Doombringer (If I keep my eyes on Jesus, I could walk on water - Audio Adrenaline)
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To: Zavien Doombringer
Consider what they call the ADD/ADHD drugs in general...stimulants!
No wonder my girl has no wieght gain...
No doubt!
229 posted on 04/30/2003 6:34:22 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: DaGman
We have learned that you cannot give this child a list of things to be done in order to complete a task. She simply loses it after the second step.

And yet I'll bet that if she reads and enjoys a book she could repeat it to you in amazing detail or give you the particulars of an event that occured weeks ago. Right?

We had my daughter tested two years ago and she was diagnosed with the inattentive form of ADD. She had been on Concerta since then and, like your daughter, has shown a marked improvement. While discussing the results of the tests that the doctor performed, the doctor told us that there are there are different forms of memory. We think in terms of short term and long term memory but there are sub-sections of each. Like our daughter, you daughter has a problem with what is called 'stacked memory'. This is the process in which the brain takes a series of instructions, stores them in order and then retrieves them in the order in which they were given. If I were to guess I would say that your daughter remembers the first instruction and often the last but loses everything in between. This is why children with this problem are thought of as air-heads and also often have difficulty reading at their grade level. When reading long sentences they lose track of the sentence structure and the meaning is lost, requiring that they reread the same passage. Fortunately as people get older they can easily develop skills that help them cope with the problem. If you know people addicted to to-do lists and meeting minutes it's likely that they suffer from this problem to one extent or another.

So no flame from this end. Just understanding and an equal contempt for Bortz for pontificating on something he knows nothing about.

Oh, and for Bortz's information, not that he would give a damn, but the reason ADD children can concentrate on video games and TV is that there they both provide a constantly changing visual stimulus. It's far different from reading a book or sitting in a classroom.

230 posted on 04/30/2003 6:48:28 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: Zavien Doombringer
Check this out...
Amphetamine
DEA Number 1100  
CSA Schedule II  
Classification Non Narcotic  
Other Names Dexedrine, Adderall, Obetrol  

A Class II drug being prescribed to your child!

So...Controlled Substances Act 21 USCS Section 802 Definitions
(6) The term "controlled substance" means a drug or other substance, or immediate precursor, included in schedule I, II, III, IV, or V of part B of this title [21 USCS Section 812]. The term does not include distilled spirits, wine, malt beverages, or tobacco, as those terms are defined or used in subtitle E of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954 [26 USCS Sections 5001 et seq.].
Your child is using a controlled substance!
The Controlled Substances Act (CSA), Title II of the Comprehensive Drug Abuse Prevention and Control Act of 1970, is the legal foundation of the government's fight against the abuse of drugs and other substances...not the Constitution, not "We the People"...

231 posted on 04/30/2003 6:51:23 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: Houmatt
Honey, really, you are way, way out of your league on this one.

I can name for you countless cases where mental health professionals have made gross misdiagnoses and destroyed people and their families for personal and financial gain.

Leaving aside your incredibly patronizing lead-in, let me point out -- sarcastically, in case you cannot tell; and by way of analogy, in case you do not get it -- that all lawyers are evil because there are a few bad ones in their ranks.

232 posted on 04/30/2003 7:07:41 AM PDT by Lazamataz (c) Entertaining beautiful women since 1972 ! :^)
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To: TheWillardHotel
OK, The gloves are off!!!

Making you kid swallow a psychotropic drug because he has "ants in his pants" is immoral.

First off, I don't know you from Adam, but in who are you in God's name are you to say, just because we have children on pills we are assuming we are bad parents (immoral)! It is obvious you have no clue to this topic of which is out of your discernment. It would be best that you refrain from such remarks. Heaven forbid you may have to be faced with this situation!

233 posted on 04/30/2003 7:12:20 AM PDT by Zavien Doombringer (If I keep my eyes on Jesus, I could walk on water - Audio Adrenaline)
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To: philman_36
A Class II drug being prescribed to your child!

This I do know...

I also know that ritalin and Adderall can be used with other drugs to enhance the euphoric feeling and prolong the high. That is the second reason for the Class II

234 posted on 04/30/2003 7:15:12 AM PDT by Zavien Doombringer (If I keep my eyes on Jesus, I could walk on water - Audio Adrenaline)
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To: Houmatt
Haven't read the thread, but modern Renaissance Man Jerry Pournelle has a great little exposition on ADD on his web page, here:

DRUGGING YOUR KIDS: DYSLEXIA AND ADD
http://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/dyslexia.html

Very much worth the read, and in line with your "take".

From his summation:

"Let me emphasize again: teaching self-discipline is work for both the teacher and the pupil. It is one of the hardest lessons for bright, active, young boys to learn. It is also one of the most important. Drugging them does not teach them much other than lessons about drugs; it certainly does not teach mastery of urges."

Now I'll read the thread.

235 posted on 04/30/2003 7:34:30 AM PDT by FreedomPoster
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To: Lazamataz
Shut up, troll.
236 posted on 04/30/2003 9:11:24 AM PDT by Houmatt (Same as it ever was??)
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To: luckystarmom
By the way it is possible to be ADHD and gifted, or LD and gifted. I know someone who was in both the LD and the gifted programs in high school, and who also took the honors english classes that went along with the gifted program. (Note that being in gifted program was not a requirement for the honors english class; anyone could take it.)

This same person was also taking ritalin for ADHD earlier in their life; so to say that an ADHD or LD "label" bars one from honors classes is not quite accurate. Some might say that it's a blatant misstatement of the facts.
237 posted on 04/30/2003 4:36:03 PM PDT by brianl703
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To: Non-Sequitur
You said...

"If I were to guess I would say that your daughter remembers the first instruction and often the last but loses everything in between. "

You nailed that one.

And, you also described my wife with...

"If you know people addicted to to-do lists and meeting minutes it's likely that they suffer from this problem to one extent or another."

I didn't address my wife's similar condition in my first post as I had already gotten too long winded.

In addition to the lists my wife keeps, she also takes verbatim minutes for the meetings she attends. What she doesn't get during the meeting, she gets off a tape recording. I've asked her why she does this as per Robert's Rules of Order she doesn't need verbatim minutes. She is just as familiar with RR of O as I am and knows this, but insists that's what she wants. It made no sense to me and seemed like a lot of unnecessary work. Now I understand.

As a bit of preemption, I'm sure the Boortz's of the world would argue that my wife's methods mean that the problem can be dealt with without medication. What that argument does not consider is the lost productivity and lost time and a lot of frustration from having to use elaborate frameworks to deal with everyday tasks that everyone else does without thinking twice. Bottom line is she whouldn't have to develop and use these methods for everyday tasks if there was no medical condition. My wife is trying to get our daughter to start using these techniques but our daughter just can't focus and remember to do it. Again, that goes back to the remembering the first and last instruction in a series.

Many, many thanks for the insight into this medical condition. You've motivated me to start educating myself on the memory process so that I can better understand what is really going on. But of course, regardless of any of this, I love them both!

I'd challenge Boortz to a debate any time. It absolutely infuriates me too when this guy makes these absolutely irresponsible statements.




238 posted on 04/30/2003 4:44:26 PM PDT by DaGman
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bump for later outrage
239 posted on 04/30/2003 4:50:45 PM PDT by longtermmemmory
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To: brianl703
To be qualified for special ed you have to have problems in some academic area. A person with a learning disability is going to have problems in an academic area. For example a person that has dyslexia may be unable to read even though their IQ is high.

My daughter does not qualify for special ed because she is not having problems with her reading, writing, or arithmetic. However, she qualifies for services under Other Health impaired because she has brain damage.

A person who is blind would not necessarily qualify for special ed. They would qualify for services under Other Health Impaired.

240 posted on 04/30/2003 4:54:37 PM PDT by luckystarmom
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