Georgia Flag Will Not Carry Rebel Battle Flag

CNN.com ^ | 04/25/03 | CNN

[stand watie]

let me say this: i've lived in GA and been a PRO at GOP politics for 30 years AND i know just a little about how to please the electorate. TRUTHFULNESS & CONSISTENCY pays BIG dividends.

the southland is headed toward a new "solid south", i.e. one without ANY statewide DIMocRATS! that's a good thing.

there also will be no longterm future for compromisers/scalawags & damnyankee-apologists.

FRee dixie,sw

[sweetliberty]

The problem is that they wouldn't allow the voters to have a say. They knew that the original would be retained if they did that, just as it was in Mississippi. This whole thing just sickens me. I saw the lawmakers cheering over this decision as if they had achieved a great victory. They have achieved nothing but a deeper level of shame in their failure to stand for our heritage. I gave southerners more credit. I am ashamed of them. The "new" Georgia flag will always be, in my opinion, a symbol of that shame and complete lack of courage which, when confronted by the political equivolent of a schoolyard bully, chose to run away cowering and hide behind the teacher's skirt rather than stand up for freedom and independence. And anybody who thinks that the bully will now be appeased is sadly mistaken. Quite the contrary. It will embolden him to encroach upon our cultural uniqueness even furthur. Is anybody even paying attention any more?

[varina davis]

The problem is that they wouldn't allow the voters to have a say. They knew that the original would be retained if they did that, just as it was in Mississippi.

That's it exactly. The Stars and Bars and the Battle Flag would make a nice matched set atop the Georgia Statehouse.

[sweetliberty]

I lived in Georgia for a few years and went to college there. I was very proud of that flag. I knew exactly how this would go as soon as I heard them say that they were afraid of it going to the voters. Whatever happened to government of the people, by the people and for the people? I guess that now translates to "control of the people by the elite few for the promotion of the socialist agenda."

[lugsoul]

If you know that much about it, then your passions may just be getting in the way. At his core, Sonny is a pro-business kinda GOPer. There was never any way that, one the Arthur Blanks and Leo Mullins of the area started asking Sonny not to do this, he was gonna stick his neck out over the flag. The only reason he did it during the election is that he didn't think he would win. And he did seem to recoil when he saw the flack over his unfortunate choice of words on election night with the battle flag waving back and forth in front of the screen.

While Sonny likes to bash Atlanta (along with many others), Sonny doesn't forget where the economic engine is - without Atlanta, you wouldn't have the "northern crescent" of wealth that is so critical for the GOP. And south Georgia benefits greatly from Atlanta tax revenue - even if they don't particularly care for the source. Bash Atlanta all you want - but without Atlanta, Georgia is Mississippi.

[lugsoul]

Why do you prefer the 1956-2001 flag over the "old" Georgia flag? Why do you prefer the battle flag over the Stars and Bars? Why isn't the new flag "Confederate enough" to show proper respect for CSA heritage?

[sweetliberty]

It is as much the fact that the legislators buckled under to the intimidation factor of the bullies as anything. Do you really think that most of the whiners even knew what the Stars and Bars was before the professional offendees told them?

[lugsoul]

Yeah, well, legislators buckled to bullies in '56, too. It's funny to me, though, who gets tarred with labels in this debate. Don't black Georgians qualify as Georgians? Should they just shut up and keep their mouth shut? If I were in their shoes, I'd be ticked off that an all-white legislature created that flag to take a symbolic stand for segregation. I'd be ticked off when I see the same flag on the courthouse that I see at the Klan rally. And I'd have a right to speak my peace. What about those good Southern folks who see the battle flag as a superficial, coopted symbol which conjures up images of burning crosses or shaved heads as much as the Old South. Don't they have a say? Why is it "buckling" to listen to more than one view?

[sweetliberty]

So wouldn't the fair thing to do have been to put it out to the voters? The fact is that most of the agitation is from outsiders; non-southerners. The fact is that when the same issue was put to a vote in Mississippi, black voters as well as white voted to keep their flag. The fact is that the stars and stripes has historically been the flag of choice of the KKK and is the only flag which flew over the slave ships. The fact is that if some of the reactionairies spent half as much time educating themselves on American and southern history as they do echoing the venomous rantings of the self-appointed mouthpieces to whom they listen, this whole thing would be a non-issue. Personally, I am fed up with the majority of Americans being reduced to simpering slaves to the "massa" racebaiters.

[Live free or die]

Georgia flag will not carry Dixie cross

Because it doesn't need to. This new design already has its roots in the First Confederate Flag which is just fine with me.

[lugsoul]

A few points:

In Mississippi, it WAS their traditional flag. It wasn't a recent statement arising from civil rights era discord. That would seem to make a difference. It certainly does to me.

Second - who are these outside agitators? I'm here in Georgia, and ya just don't see a lot of outsiders on this issue. Like it or not - MANY Georgians didn't want the '56 flag and were pleased with the outcome.

[sweetliberty]

It still doesn't answer the question about why they were afraid to trust the voters. If the voters had chosen to change the flag, then I wouldn't have so much trouble accepting the outcome. Instead, they made a concentrated effort to circumvent the voters. There is no justification for that in my opinion.

[lugsoul]

Last one - why is it "fair" to put it to the voters for THIS flag, when no other flag change has ever been put to a popular vote in Georgia, the '56 flag was passed by the leglislature just like the '01 flag and the '03 flag and every flag before (oh, except that when the '56 flag was passed, there were 66 abstentions in the house). When it is UNCONSTITUTIONAL under the state constitution to have a binding referendum on the flag.

You folks are just spinning myths about the reality you want to exist.

[sweetliberty]

Look, I don't know what the history was if previous flags in Georgia, but evidently there was not the controversy stirred before that exists now. Obviously this is an issue that many people care deeply about, and since this was once a government by the people and still claims to be, the fact that so many do care about it justifies putting it to a vote. And obviously that was a viable option because it was a fear that some admitted to. To me, that translates to being afraid that they wouldn't like the outcome so they decided not to take any chances.

[stainlessbanner]

I'd be ticked off when I see the same flag on the courthouse that I see at the Klan rally.

By that logic, I ought to quit being American and Christian because the white robes fly those flags in addition to the CBF. I don't give up so easy, nor should you.

[Polybius]

But all they've done is swap one confederate symbol for another.

Very true.

They have swapped the flag flown by Confederate soldiers in battle for the flag flown by Confederate politicians over Confederate Legislatures.

It seems to me that, if the NAACP types had a beef with Confederates, it would have been more with the Confederate politicians than with the Confederate soldier.

[stainlessbanner]

To me, that translates to being afraid that they wouldn't like the outcome so they decided not to take any chances.

You are correct. This is the irony of their position.

[Polybius]

It isn't the Confederate history of the battle flag that is objectionable. It is the symbol of white supremacy that it has become - thanks to those who use it in that manner, and those who let them.

Well, throughout the history of the Ku Klux Klan, the Stars and Stripes and the Christian Cross have been used as KKK symbols far more than the Confederate Battle Flag.

The Christian Cross is already under attack by the ACLU.

I guess the Stars and Stripes will be the next flag attacked as "a symbol of oppression".

[lugsoul]

yeah, that's ONE view. The others are that they didn't want to have an even more divisive debate than the one we just had. Or they didn't want the spectre of raising the rebel flag after a vote with wholesale non-participation by black voters. Ot they didn't want the agenda driven by a minority of re-enactors.

C'mon. Do you really think the legislator would have done this if 60-70% of folks wanted the '56 flag? Don't you think these folks know who pays them?

Personally, I don't like ANY of my tax dollars being spent on a non-binding vote. Or on replacing every damn flag in the state over and over again. It never should've been changed in '56 (You'll see stand watie and some others make the unsupportable claim that that flag change was about commemorating the Cenntennial - a few years early. There is NO contemporary evidence to support that - and, as I said, there were 66 ABSTENTIONS on the vote. Do you think that 66 white men would abstain from voting on a flag change if it was only about honoring the Cenntennial?)

Assuming the other reason is the case - that the '56 flag change was a defiant statement against integration - don't ya think its a bad idea to keep it when you can have another CSA-based flag without that baggage?

[Polybius]

I'd be ticked off when I see the same flag on the courthouse that I see at the Klan rally.

I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiments. However, the First Amendment allows the KKK to carry the Stars and Stripes whether we like it or not.