Georgia Flag Will Not Carry Rebel Battle Flag

CNN.com ^ | 04/25/03 | CNN

[lugsoul]

If you are talking about the freedom to maintain a two-tiered system, maybe you are right. Otherwise, you are simply ignoring the large number of Georgians, and Southerners, who saw that flag waved as a symbol of their persecution. That ain't a lie. If you've never seen that, then you never lived here.

[Polybius]

The Red Wings....

Ooops. Sorry. Slip of the cyber-tongue.

That should read "Red Tails" as in the 332nd Fighter Group. So nicknamed because of the distinctive Group color scheme of red tails and red spinners.

The 332nd was credited with the downing of 111 enemy fighters, including three of eight Messerschmitt ME-262 jets shot down by the Allies during World War II. Most importantly, the 332nd never lost an escorted American bomber to enemy fighters.

332nd Fighter Group "Red Tails"

Patch of the 332nd Fighter Group

Not to be confused with:

The Detroit Red Wings

[stand watie]

i'm sure there were at least 5 native Georgians who really disliked the flag. at least 5.

TRUTH is, NOBODY but the IGNORANT leftists of the most extreme liberal fringe of the DIMocRAT party were offended;those fools are always looking for something to be offended about. do i care if the left is offended or thinks we southrons are "insensitive" to their views? ABSOLUTELY NOT!

and yes, i've lived in GA, Columbus to be exact. i left because i went back to grad school to finish another degree in LA.

free dixie,sw

[lugsoul]

So, I guess that leftist scalawag Saxby Chambliss is one of the 5. And that other extreme leftist scalawag Zell Miller is one of the five. Hell, once we get past daddy and daugher McKinney and John Lewis, we are out of slots on your team.

Just more unsupportable extreme hyperbole from your end. It is funny, with all your ranting about "outside agitators," you could almost be mistaken for a Southern official circa 1961. But it seems that none of the most outspoken people on the flag issue are Yankees - why is that? They're just smart enough to find front people for their views?

[Polybius]

That is a meaningless rant. You can't identify one comment where I have denigrated the Confederate soldier......

Go to your Post 8 on the beginning of this thread:

No joke. It's actually simple - the Stars and Bars (upon which the new flag is based) [a] hasn't been used by skinheads, Klansmen, and various redneck hate groups as a symbol and [b] wasn't selected by the Georgia Legislature to "send a message" about desegregation. It isn't the Confederate history of the battle flag that is objectionable. It is the symbol of white supremacy that it has become - thanks to those who use it in that manner, and those who let them........8 posted on 04/28/2003 6:58 AM PDT by lugsoul

Yes, you never mentioned "the Confederate soldier". You are content to demonize the military symbol that represented all of them in battle.

It's analogous to saying, "I am not denigrating Jews. I am merely stating that the Star of David is a hate symbol because Palestinian radicals and the Aztlan Nation say it is".

So, the only thing that someone like you needs to justify declaring a historical symbol with an honorable military history to be a "hate symbol" is that some racist Klansman or Skinhead decides to display it.

You never did explain why the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia has been singled out as the one American historical symbol that bears the brunt of demonization for it's use by white racists when the Christian Cross and the Stars and Stripes have a history of far more extensive use by the Ku Klux Klan.

The Celtic Cross is also used by Skinheads as a "hate symbol". Maybe we should also demonize the Irish Brigade Celtic Cross Memorial at Gettysburg.

[lugsoul]

"It's analogous to saying, "I am not denigrating Jews. I am merely stating that the Star of David is a hate symbol because Palestinian radicals and the Aztlan Nation say it is"."

No - it's analogous to saying, "I know that the swaztika has a long history as a positive symbol, but that history was tainted by a few folks who put it to horrible symbolic use."

First, I acknowledge the Klan also fly the stars and stripes. But surely you don't deny that the battle flag is used by the Klan AND OTHERS as a symbol of white supremacy. Surely you don't. If you do, you need to hang out in North Florida for a while.

I hate that the battle flag has been co-opted - but I don't ignore that it has - and there are plenty of other Confederate symbols that haven't.

[Polybius]

Oh - a word on your opinion of research. You quoted avowed segregationists who defended their actions in hindsight and ran full speed away from their own outspoken segregationist views

As I said before, I am not from Georgia. Those are just names out of a phone book to me and I have no idea who is or is not a racist.

You are from Georgia and are trying to prove a historical point to me. I am asking that you prove it as historians prove a point: By producing primary source materials and not partisan opinion pieces.

"All Germans in Belgium in 1914 were baby-murdering, nun-raping savage Huns said the British Information Ministry" is wothless as a historical proof.

[Polybius]

No - it's analogous to saying, "I know that the swaztika has a long history as a positive symbol, but that history was tainted by a few folks who put it to horrible symbolic use."

The swastika was not by "a few folks". It was by a regime numbering tens of millions that killed 20 million people.

The number of Klansmen and Skinheads in all of America would probably not be enough to rival the number of Chicago Cub fans.

[stand watie]

zig-zag miller is CERTAINLY a scalawag-that's a fact. as for you & your house, i'm NOT surprised, given the tone of your posts.

the most outspoken ranters about the flag are scalawags & damnyankees.

BTW, being a northern-born no more makes you a damnyankee than it makes you a methodist.

damnyankees & scalawags are MADE, not born. scratch either one and you find a BIGOT, who hates traditional concepts/ideals/objects.that is their nature, just as it is the nature of a scorpion to sting. both scalawags & damnbyankees should leave the southland & head north forever.

FRee dixie,sw

[stand watie]

sick=stick.

[Polybius]

No - it's analogous to saying, "I know that the swaztika has a long history as a positive symbol, but that history was tainted by a few folks who put it to horrible symbolic use." ....lugsoull

The swastika was not by "a few folks". It was by a regime numbering tens of millions that killed 20 million people. The number of Klansmen and Skinheads in all of America would probably not be enough to rival the number of Chicago Cub fans.....Polybius

Oooops. Sorry again. Rushed that last post.

The 20 million killed was only the number of deaths in the Soviet Union. The entire death toll in the European Theater during World War II was approximately 40 million.

Either way, 20 million killed or 40 million killed, you can't flippantly dismiss the the Nazis as "a few folks".

By contrast, this black history web site states that current Klan membership in America has declined to a few thousand.

By the way, you are certainly avoiding the subject of the use of the Stars and Stripes as the Ku Klux Klan's most extensively used flag by far.

How about ""I know that the Stars and Strpes has a long history as a positive symbol, but that history was tainted by a few folks who put it to horrible symbolic use."

[stand watie]

the CROSS of JESUS CHRIST is the MOST-used symbol of the kkk;perhaps ole' lugsoul would ban (or change it to a different and "less politically sensitive" item) it too.

BTW, the national HQ of the KKK is in Butler,IN.

the actual nationwide membership is about 5,000 IDIOTS;about 40% of those are from IN. (BTW, the last time i looked, IN was NOT a dixie state. i'm PLEASED!)

also, there are more KKK members in NYC (31) than there are in LA (28) as of 2002, per the LASP.

FRee dixie,sw

[lugsoul]

Funny - you never seem to deal with the major fallacy in your entire approach. If this is about "tradition," as you put it - both for and against - what is wrong with the "tradition" of the Stars and Bars and why do the "damnyankees and scalawags" accept the brazen display of Confederate symbolism represented by flying the Stars and Bars? How come no one is marching on the Stone Mountain memorial? Or the dozens of other Confederate symbols so prominent in this area?

What is it about this one symbol of many that elevates above all of the others in status?

[lugsoul]

Oh - as far as your opinion about where I should go - you're the one that left Dixie, and you can stay gone. I'll stay right here - and I'm free to do so, because Dixie IS already free.

[Polybius]

the CROSS of JESUS CHRIST is the MOST-used symbol of the kkk;perhaps ole' lugsoul would ban (or change it to a different and "less politically sensitive" item) it too.

BTW, the national HQ of the KKK is in Butler,IN.

Exactly.

The Ku Klux Klan in it's heyday in the 1920's, 30's and 40's was a nationwide racist organization with, as I understand it, about 75% of it's members being non-Southern.

The Stars and Stripes and not the Southern Cross was always the traditonal flag of the Ku Klux Klan for the simple reason that the Grandpa of the 1930's Klansman in Ohio, Indiana or Illinois had worn a Union uniform and not a Confederate uniform.

If you look at the photos of the giant Washington, DC Ku Klux Klan rallies of the 1930's, you will see a sea of Stars and Stripes down the parade rout but not a single Southern Cross.

During my life, I lived 20 years in Florida, one year in Georgia, one year in Maryland and two years in South Carolina. Maybe I was hanging around the wrong places but, after living all those years in Southern states as a Catholic and an immigrant starting in 1960, I have never in my life seen a Ku Klux Klansman in uniform or an individual that admited to being a Klansmen.

They can't be all that common.

It seems that all it takes for the Politically Correct crowd to declare that a historical emblem of military valor is equivalent to the swastika symbol of the regime that caused the death of 40 million people in Europe is to have a few thousand radical wingnuts decide that they are going display it.

Unless, of course, the radical wingnuts display the Stars and Stripes or the Christian Cross. If that is the case, the Political Correctniks don't even bring up the subject as it demonstrates how ridiculous that argument is.

[Polybius]

Well, well, well. While we're on the subject........

It seems that a new American historical symbol has been decreed "offensive" by the Left-wing Political Correctniks.

Check out this FreeRepublic thread:

Educrats Ban Founding Fathers, Mount Rushmore

" Out in La-La Land, educrats are rewriting history to appease those who make a career of taking offense at reality. California's textbooks are being changed as follows, according to Fox News Channel:

Mount Rushmore can't be mentioned because "it appears to offend" some American Indians."

[epow]

How come no one is marching on the Stone Mountain memorial? Or the dozens of other Confederate symbols so prominent in this area?

Give 'em time, just give 'em time. The race hustlers will go after anything that keeps them in the public eye. Now that segregation has been gone from the scene for over a generation, people like Jesse Jackson, Sharpton, et al, have to keep finding new "causes" in order to keep the racial pot boiling and the money rolling in. They discovered long ago that given enough free media coverage, any trivial issue can be escalated into another "outrage" of epic proportions.

I would wager that 95% of the GA population could not have picked the GA flag out of a police lineup of state flags before the hustlers started the current uproar. Yet now we are supposed to believe that no member of the minority community can bear to see another sunrise because of the unbearable mental and emotional torment they live with as a result of that flag flying over the golden dome. Hogwash. You must know as well as I do that the controversy is entirely a creation of the premier extortion gang in the U.S. today, namely Jesse Jackson and his gang of perpetually offended and forever outraged partners in crime.

After this issue has been milked for every scrap of publicity and minority "outrage" that can be manufactured out of thin air, the hustlers will begin the hunt for the next target of opportunity, never mind that no "outrage" over that target presently exists. Don't be surprised if it's the Stone Mountain memorial, or some other equally innocuous and noncontroversial, at least for now, symbol. I know I certainly won't be. As I said earlier, paying a blackmailer only encourages more blackmail, and it never ends until the victim is bled dry and has nothing left with which to pay. The GA legislature just made a first payment, thus guranteeing never-ending extortion by every gang of race hustlers in the U.S.

After reading through all your posts to the thread, I'm not interested in pursuing this conversation any further. Your abnormal obsession with defining the Confederate battle flag as the distillation of all human evil since time began appears to have taken your responses beyond vigorous but genial debate, and I'm not qualified to venture into the realm of aberrant psychological disorders.

[sweetliberty]

A most excellent post. I appreciate it.

[lugsoul]

OOOOhhhhhh - we just threw away all of our heritage and caved in to the blackmailers! By creating a state flag modeled on the First National flag of the Confederacy! How can we trach our heritage that way! Oh, horrors!

[stand watie]

have you STILL not figured out that southrons love/revere ALL the dixie flags, BUT we dispise scalawags,damnfools, PC-morons,"liberals" & damnyankees being "offended" by ANY of the dixie flags, including the ANV BATTLEFLAG.

and i refuse to "compromise" with them on ANY of our flags, ever again.

to the scalawags/damnyankees/liberals/naaLcp-morons/splc-shysters "compromise" means bowing down to their agenda & surrendering OUR ideals/memorial/flags/burial sits to "the offended"; nothing more, nothing less.

that southrons will hereafter REFUSE to do.

FRee dixie,sw