Plans Under Way for Christianizing the Enemy

NewHouse News Service ^ | 3/26/03 | Mark O'Keefe

[BibChr]

You said something the Christophobes here need to know. Let me turn up the volume:

Without a Judeo-Christian world view, self government is very difficult if not impossible to sustain

Otherwise, all we've done is taking a values-free lazy family, put them in a government-built home for free, and said "Best of luck."

You know how that ALWAYS turns out, right?

Dan
Biblical Christianity message board

[Captain Kirk]

Err...um....I thought that the U.S. had no interest in running Iraq and wanted to let them create their own government as soon as possible. Then...again, you might be right to question this promise? A good argument could be made that this promise is a defacto sham. Is that the implication of your comment?

[Mamzelle]

re: Franklin's group should be banned.

My, my. Franklin's members put their lives on the line regularly, so I doubt they'd be too impressed with you.

Franklin's wife is also quite courageous, and supported his achievements.

[GirlShortstop]

So once again.... my point is that the Bible DOES NOT teach that it is ALWAYS right to preach the Gospel, everywhere at all times.

JESUS said:  I am The Way, The Truth and The Light.  Did he not?  And spreading His word does not pigeonhole that to *words* alone, right?  It is ALWAYS RIGHT to be Christian and reveal His Truth, no?
Why is what I am trying to say wrong, and the subject of your criticism?
Could I ask any more questions?  LOL.

[Jorge]

I infer that it's been determined that The Way, The Truth, The Light shall not be revealed to the Iraqis based upon what Jesus told the apostles *after* He was turned away.I do not view that to be the same situation in Iraq.

I already addressed this in post #55.

Which perspective, if wrong, is more damaging?

It is very possible that well intentioned but misguided groups of evangelists could actually worsen the situation for Christians in a place like Iraq...making presentation of the Gospel on any scale much more dangerous and difficult....which will ultimately slow or stop the advancement of the Gospel in this region.

That is what I believe is likely to happen in this case, and that would be more damaging.

[Louisiana]

Freedom of Religion!

There are those who are posting and will be posting on this thread that do not support freedom of religion in America. They will bash Graham and Southern Baptists.

I wonder what kind of "regime" they would really like to live under? Many of these posts do not sound very American.

These same ones who slam the Graham's and the Southern Baptists of this world for what they say, claim they believe in FREE SPEECH.

Sounds like we have been infiltrated by a bunch of communists or at best a bunch of liberal wackos.

Food for thought
- to those who would restrict Freedom of Religion
- to those who would restrict Freedom of Speech

[Mamzelle]

re: Oh God, just what we need another 24 million Baptists! I don't think there's enough water in Iraq to dunk them all. )))

LOL...Baptists must fall on the just and the unjust alike.

[Pete]

More specifically it was where they were not received and the people would not listen to them.

It does not mean they didn't try. The passage you quoted says "shake the dust from your feet". Clearly, they were already in the town if they have the dust on their feet. Now, I agree with you that if they are not welcomed and are not listened to, then they should "shake the dust". However, I do not believe the passage implies one should not try.

As far as your position that the Bible does not command that the Gospel be preached at all time in all places, I will say two things.

First, here is a passage that was actually quoted in #41 above.

Jesus said "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you..." Matthew 28:19

Note, it does not say some nations.

Second, even beyond direct commands, like the Great Commission, there is an overall implied message that the Gospel should be spread anywhere and everywhere. Therefore, I would ask you provide either specific Biblical commands supporting your position or make the case that the implied command is consistent with your position.

In an effort to expediate this debate, I would point out that early in Jesus' ministry, he focused soley on preaching to the Jews. However, after the faith exhibited by the Centurion (among other events) he widened his audience. Any remaining doubt about the completeness of the potential audience can be put aside by Paul's vision on the road to Damascus.

[GirlShortstop]

...I thought that the U.S. had no interest in running Iraq
America and the coalition are currently "running" Iraq
and wanted to let them create their own government as soon as possible.
I would say that is accurate.
A good argument could be made that this promise is a defacto sham. Disagree
Is that the implication of your comment?
No.  You said that "No Iraqi government will ever allow freedom to evangelize Muslims for Christianity."  I did not concur with you in regard to the subject at hand, and made my comment accordingly.  FReegards.

[Louisiana]

http://www.imb.org/urgent/articledetail.asp?urgentID=30

Churches challenged to send 'gifts of love' to hungry Iraqis
By Mark Kelly



RICHMOND, Va. (BP) -- Southern Baptist relief workers expect hunger to be one of the major needs they find in Iraq when humanitarian aid finally is able to cross the border, and churches across the United States are being challenged to help minister to that need.

Iraq's people have suffered under the regime of Saddam Hussein and 12 years of United Nations sanctions have made their lives even more difficult, says Jim Brown, director of world hunger and relief ministries for the International Mission Board.

For less than $60, congregations can assemble a box of dry food that will feed a family of five for about a month. Brown is challenging all 42,000 Southern Baptist congregations to mobilize food relief for hungry Iraqis.

"This is a great way for Southern Baptists who can't actually go themselves to minister in a personal way to Iraqi people," Brown said. "This isn't relief that is going to be mass-distributed in a refugee camp either. It will be specifically delivered to hungry families in the towns and villages of Iraq once peace has been restored to the country."

The food aid will be delivered without regard to ethnic or religious identity, Brown said.

The boxes will contain almost 70 pounds of staple food items: beans, lentils, rice, flour, salt, sugar, loose tea and powdered milk. Packing instructions and a detailed list of portion sizes can be found below.

The boxes must not contain other items or literature of any sort, Brown said. Inclusion of evangelistic tracts could cause the aid shipment to be rejected by authorities.

A label on the outside of each box will quote John 1:17 in Arabic: "For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ." It also will identify it as "A gift with love from the Southern Baptist churches in America."

Disaster relief offices of Baptist state convention will receive boxes and, in partnership with the IMB, will coordinate delivery to the shipping point, Brown said. Specific questions about the collection process should be directed to those offices (On-line contact information). People with other questions may contact the International Mission Board.

Churches or individuals who would prefer to make a donation toward the cost of the project can designate checks to "Iraq Response - General Relief" and mail them to: Iraq Response, P.O. Box 6767, Richmond, VA 23230-0767. Make checks payable to International Mission Board and designate "Iraq Response - General Relief." Every dollar given will go 100 percent to relief ministries.

Give online

For more information Iraq relief efforts


Ready to serve?


More Iraq news reports


Interactive map of the Middle East

---

A “GIFT OF LOVE” FROM SOUTHERN BAPTISTS
FAMILY FOOD BOXES FOR IRAQ

Directions:

Use only a U-Haul “small box” product (16 3/8” x 12 5/8” x 12 5/8” = 1.5 cubic feet). Same size boxes will help facilitate both bulk packing and transportation. Begin by lining the box with a large trashcan liner - this will protect the contents and prevent spillage outside the box. Pack the items by quantity list below. Begin by layering the 4 bags of rice on one side of the bottom and the sugar and flour (standing) on the other sides. Next stack the bags of beans and lentils on top of the standing sugar and flour bags. Lastly place the salt, tea and powdered milk (10 – 3.2 oz. envelopes) in the remaining air space. Tie the trashcan liner and securely tape the box (making sure the box has also been securely taped on the bottom). (Total weight will be approximately 68 pounds – box capacity is 70 pounds.) Your “family food box” will help provide food for a family of five for approximately one month.

PLEASE do not place any additional item/literature inside the box. We will be providing state conventions stick-on labels to be placed on the outside of the box (John 1:17 in Arabic).

TIMELINE:

FINAL Collection by May 19, 2003.

Deliver them to your state convention disaster relief site by May 21, 2003.
(Phone your respective state office for additional information.)

ITEM QUANTITY/SIZE APPROX. COST PER ITEM
Rice-Long Grained (4) 5 lb. bags $2.50 x 4 bags = $10.00
(not instant rice!)

Flour-All Purpose (3) 5 lb. bags $1.89 x 3 bags = 5.67

Sugar (2) 5 lb. bags $1.99 x 2 bags = 3.98

White Navy Beans (12) 1 lb. bags $ .89 x 12 bags = 10.68

Lentils (4) 1 lb. bags $ .69 x 4 bags = 2.76

Iodized Salt (2) 26 oz. containers $ .43 x 2 containers = .86

Loose Tea (Lipton) (4) ½ lb. boxes $3.69 x 4 boxes = 14.76

Powdered Milk (10) 3.2 oz. envelopes $8.00 for 10 envelopes = 8.00

APPROXIMATE TOTAL $56.71
COST OF BOX $ 1.75

[murdoog]

Did anybody else think the headline makes it sound like our government has plans to proselytize? I'm thinking of how it fails to mention whose plans they are, and the use of the term "the enemy" as opposed to say, "Iraqis".

I'm thinking the headline writer wanted to make it look like we were embarked on a new crusade.

[Pete]

It is very possible that well intentioned but misguided groups of evangelists could actually worsen the situation for Christians in a place like Iraq...making presentation of the Gospel on any scale much more dangerous and difficult....which will ultimately slow or stop the advancement of the Gospel in this region.

Actually, the situation is similar to Paul's missionary journey into Asia Minor. Note that just because he was chased out of a couple of places by angry mobs, it didn't stop him from continuing his work. He also didn't spend too much time worrying about his PR campaign.

[GLDNGUN]

graham might be a nice guy, but don't you think he'll be out on his ear in short order?

Isn't that what they said about that Jesus guy from Nazareth? Whatever happened to him anyway?

Happy Easter :-)

[Dataman]

A Mormon not wanting Christians to have the opportunity to tell the truth about a false religion.

Misery loves company?

Massacrers of a feather flock together?

[GirlShortstop]

I'm thinking the headline writer wanted to make it look like we were embarked on a new crusade.

Agree.   Hence, imo, the "glass half empty" replies that I've seen posted so many times here.
FReegards.

[Cedric]

Saddam gave Bush a pretext to establish a large presence right smack in the middle of the murderous, anti-American, Moslem Middle East. After having spilled American blood to do so, why should we refrain from promoting Christianity and the Gospel of peace? Because it might make 'me mad? They were already mad! See; "Jihad".

[cowboyfred]

'The SBCs can go in if they refrain from making stupid public statements about "evil and wicked religion," "moon god," and "paedophile."'


Yes. The truth is bad.

[GirlShortstop]

Actually, the situation is similar to Paul's missionary journey into Asia Minor.

Fine point Pete.  Paul's work was, and its fruition is, Christianity in Arab lands.

[Illbay]

Absolutely.

I also believe in good manners.

[mabelkitty]

But, how can Pat Buchanan blame the J-E-W-S for this?