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Confederate Memorial Day will honor soldiers who sided against the Union
staugustine.com ^ | 18 April 2003 | PETER GUINTA

Posted on 04/18/2003 6:53:53 AM PDT by stainlessbanner

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To: sheltonmac
Acually, the revisionists were all those Democrat professors who, starting with the New Deal, were to write nearly all the history books in this country. Prior to this Democrat revisionism, venerating the Democrats who rebelled against Old Glory (yes, every single Confederate rebel was a Democrat), history books stated very clearly that the Confedates hanged hundreds of people for loyalty to the United States Government.
21 posted on 04/18/2003 7:42:23 AM PDT by Grand Old Partisan (You can read about my history of the GOP at www.republicanbasics.com)
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To: Pern
Here you are yourself a revisionist. The Confederates made very clear at the time that the property they were fighting for was, above all, slaves.
22 posted on 04/18/2003 7:43:59 AM PDT by Grand Old Partisan (You can read about my history of the GOP at www.republicanbasics.com)
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To: Lysander
That's why the Dems, then and now, are always doing whatever it takes to keep 'em on the plantation.
23 posted on 04/18/2003 7:45:22 AM PDT by Illbay
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To: kaboom
LOL!
24 posted on 04/18/2003 7:45:35 AM PDT by Illbay
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To: Illbay
Exactly! That's my whole point. The Democrats have ALWAYS been this way.
25 posted on 04/18/2003 7:46:12 AM PDT by Grand Old Partisan (You can read about my history of the GOP at www.republicanbasics.com)
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To: Pern
Not bashing anyone, just pointing out that this rebellion of slave owners did not have the support of 70,000 armed former slaves.

It just never happened.
26 posted on 04/18/2003 7:46:35 AM PDT by Illbay
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To: putupon; yankhater; Mudboy Slim; FBD; cherry_bomb88; jla
"It was shortly after the War of Nothern Aggression some yankee woman came by and noticed the people honoring the graves of those killed at Petersburg, VA during the seige..."

Very true. One of our town's claims to fame!

27 posted on 04/18/2003 7:46:53 AM PDT by sultan88 ("You got yer dead skunk in the middle of the road...and it stinks")
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To: sultan88
"Those killed at Petersburg during the siege" were slaves forced to dig trenches, not soldiers.
28 posted on 04/18/2003 7:48:29 AM PDT by Illbay
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To: sultan88
Memorial Day was created by General John Logan -- Union Army veteran, leader of the Grand Army of the Republic veterans organization, and 1884 Republican vice-presidential candidate.
29 posted on 04/18/2003 7:49:21 AM PDT by Grand Old Partisan (You can read about my history of the GOP at www.republicanbasics.com)
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To: Pern
Sorry, I disagree. This seems to be a well researched piece, but if you want to join the Politically Correct crowd and bash the evil, two-headed, baby-eating, everyone had 10 slaves soliders of the CSA, feel free.

Oh, but my goodness must nip this in the bud, nip this in the bud, - blacks who fought for the South - Oh say it isn't so? If there were - they were slaves that were chained to the wagon wheels, doncha know? Also, there were no free blacks in the South. There were no black slave owners. Every and I mean every barefooted ridgerunner owned slaves. No one in the North every owned slaves. Only angels lived north of the Mason-Dixon and only cruel, rich, lazy, slaveowners lived south of it - slaves excepted. No Republican ever owned slaves - read that little jewel of wisdom right here in FR. Lincoln was the greatest man that ever lived. He had absolutely no reason to pursue the war other than his love for the black man and his desire to see them free. Have I left anything out?

I don't know the name of the poster - but we will in all probability be 'enlightened' with reams and reams of articles about Lincoln's wonderfulness.

You know. If the Southerners were such heinous people and such a blight on the union - and since at the time, slavery was legal, and so was succession. The wonderful Lincoln said so - just didn't think 'this' was a good enough reason, why didn't they just let them go from the union and consider it good riddance to bad trash? I have always wondered that. If I had relatives that were doing legal things but totally heinous (slavery was), I would want to distance myself from them. I wouldn't want them around me.

I feel that way about politically correct relatives right now.

30 posted on 04/18/2003 7:49:26 AM PDT by nanny
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To: Illbay
"Those killed at Petersburg during the siege" were slaves forced to dig trenches, not soldiers.

That was awful nice of those Confederate ladies to honor the dead slaves then.< /sarcasm>

Go to the Petersburg battlefield visitor centor and check out the pics. See who the blacks with shovels digging the canal that was never finished were. Their uniforms look a whole lot like yankee uniforms and they were behind yankee lines and it was the yankees' canal to supply yankee troops.

31 posted on 04/18/2003 7:55:31 AM PDT by putupon (I smack Chirac and Robbins too w/ my shoe.)
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To: stainlessbanner; All
too bad hypocritical yankees don't have the cajones to read this book
32 posted on 04/18/2003 8:02:36 AM PDT by putupon (I smack Chirac and Robbins too w/ my shoe.)
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To: stainlessbanner
This reminds me of a song I heard a few times back in the late 60's-early 70's, performed by an east coast guitar & banjo duo called the Dornan Brothers. Jeff, Mark, are either of you Freepers?

I can only remember bits and pieces of it; here's a little:

(chorus)
He was the symbol
of those before the gun,
who died for what they thought was right
in eighteen sixty one...(Johnny Rebel)

He left his home in Georgia, his wife and children three,
he left them all behind him to fight with General Lee..

(chorus)

(memory gap)

They buried Johnny's body 'neath the weeping willow tree
but his story still lives on in the land of liberty...
because...

He was the symbol of those before the gun
who died for what they thought was right
in eighteen sixty one.
33 posted on 04/18/2003 8:08:34 AM PDT by JimRed (Disinformation is the leftist's and enemy's friend; consider the source before believing.)
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To: stainlessbanner
Thanks for the article. I'm sure it will re-kindle the usual internecine hostilities here at FR. The real truth of the Civil War was whispered in the dying breaths of those who fell on both sides and the innocents caught in the middle. No one answer seems to be completely accurate the further we get from the actual events. Everyone has their own agenda. My personal feelings are with those who are buried under neat rows of headstones or in single unmarked shallow graves all over the countryside. The foundation stones and crumbling chimney of my great grandfather's home and the big ancient oak tree he was hung from by marauding jayhawkers speak to me of those terrible times better than any movie or article. Leave it alone.
34 posted on 04/18/2003 8:09:06 AM PDT by Lee Heggy (Tastes like chicken.)
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To: sultan88
thanks for the ping! bttt
35 posted on 04/18/2003 8:11:18 AM PDT by FBD (Afghanistan, check... Iraq, check...Syria, did you say sumpin?)
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To: Grand Old Partisan
Well whatever you do, don't check out this list of books. Don't look at any of the pictures of the day of these brave soldiers. Don't go down into South Carolina where there are monuments dedicated to Black Confederates. Ignore the anecdotal evidence from the yankee invasion force. Just stick your fingers in your ears, cover your eyes, and keep telling yourself that only you know the truth.
36 posted on 04/18/2003 8:12:03 AM PDT by billbears (Deo Vindice)
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To: Grand Old Partisan
The Confederates made very clear at the time that the property they were fighting for was, above all, slaves.

That may have been for the rich plantation owners, but not my ancestors, or the 'common folk' of the South. They were too poor to own slaves. They were probably right there in the fields with slaves, just trying to make a living.

What would you do if an occupying army invaded your land, slaughtered your cattle and swine, confiscated your crops, and burned your house down? If I would find myself in that situation, I would probably follow their example and take up arms.

37 posted on 04/18/2003 8:14:12 AM PDT by Pern
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To: Illbay
Not them, us. We are all slaves. Taxing labor is slavery. Arguing whether it should be 32% or 38% is only arguing about how many bails need to picked and who gets to live in the big house or the shack. End all tax on labor or remain a slave.
38 posted on 04/18/2003 8:16:24 AM PDT by Lysander (My army can kill your army)
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To: Pern
Most of the rebels who did not own slaves fought to stave off social equality with black people.

All this business about rebels defending their homes is nonsense. Hundreds of thousands of southerners (everyone a Democrat, BTW) rushed off to enlist in the rebel army after the rebels had fired the first shot (upon a U. S. Government facility known as Ft. Sumter) and before the U.S. Army had lifted a finger against the seceded states.


39 posted on 04/18/2003 8:20:09 AM PDT by Grand Old Partisan (You can read about my history of the GOP at www.republicanbasics.com)
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To: sultan88; stainlessbanner; Mudboy Slim; stand watie; FBD; All
The service of black soldiers in the Confederate Army has been a controversial topic over the last few years. The problem with the debate has been two extreme factions... On the one side are those who in order to combat political correctness engage ironically in multiculturalism themselves by claiming thousands of African-Americans fell in the ranks of Confederate soldiers. The other factions are those unwilling to believe that any black man would willingly serve the Confederacy.

The problem here is that many of these people arguing have not qualified the meaning of "service". Most "black Confederates" were "serving" the Confederacy as cooks, butlers, bodyservants, and particularly teamsters. In fact, it was partly this Confederate black "service" that kept the lesser populated white South able to provide men to the fighting armies. Ending this was one (not the only) factor in the Contraband Acts, and the Emancipation Proclamation. Many of these slave/servants in better equipped companies can be clearly seen in surviving photography wearing Confederate uniforms. (their service would also qualify them for pensions)

But were they soldiers? That question is tricky and relies on very few sources. Some free blacks offered their services to the CSA in 1861 but were turned down. Monetary contributions were accepted. The New Orleans Native Guard, a wealhty mulatto/Creole militia group of War of 1812 fame offered theirs in 1862 but were turned down and joined the Union Army. The other famous account were the two companies raised in April 1865 (only because of RE Lee's demands "we should decide if these people should fight for us or against us") and who drilled in Richmond. They never saw action.

The rest is heresay. I think probably many light-skinned black folks "passed" as whites. Probably no diffferent than women who fought and passed as men. Also there are accounts of body servants of officers (slaves who "grew up" side by side with their masters) picking up a rifle a time or two. This certainly happened on many (or at least several) occasions. The problem here is that this story was later interpreted in post-war literature as "the loyal Darky". It can be found in the book "in Ole Virginia" (forgot the author). It was overemphasized to contrast "loyal" blacks during segregation to "troublemakers", a segregationalist "morality play" in a way.

The point here is we forget how hard it was to have black troops raised for the Union Army. In the Confederacy it was a conflict to the social order. For example paraphrasing Howell Cobb "if they make good soldiers they justifiable can not be held as slaves". We forget that between the 18th century and 1860's in the south we had Gabriel Prosser, Nat Turner, and John Brown's rebellions/raids. That generation of Southerners were much more uncomfortable with guns in the hands of slaves than their grandfathers were. (see the slave codes of the 1830's). It was difficult enough for Cleburne and a man like even Lee to get black soldiers raised. We must understand the threat that posed to the southern worldview.

This is not to bash the south or anyone's Confederate ancestor. The mean-spirited "south as losers" attitude is self righteous and discounts northern attrocities/ inconsitancies. Only the truly cold-hearted person could stand at Gettysburg and not feel their bravery and sacrifice. My opinion, however humble, is that the black Confederate is mythology. By advocating it, you play into the hands of political correctness. Even if you were to prove 70,000 C.S.A. black soldiers served, your opponents would discount them as "sellouts" and "Uncle Tom's". It would not affect their South bashing one iota.

40 posted on 04/18/2003 8:21:48 AM PDT by yankhater
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