Slump in Plane Travels Grounds Wichita

The NY Times ^ | 041603 | Peter Kilborn

[philetus]

about 11,000 aircraft workers in Wichita
1,200 workers go in May
June and July, furloughing 6,000 more of the 8,000 still on the payroll

Thats 18,200 people.

You really believe their all guilty of "lack of planning and greedy shopping mall exploits"?

[Archangelsk]

But Bush IS doing something...that's what this war is all about. It's not about liberating Iraq...

Thank you. The idiots who shout "no blood for oil" are wrong-wrong-wrong. The slogan should be - for those with brains - "Oil for jobs". Our country's economy depends on inexpensive energy because we are huge and spread out. The amount of real estate we need to cover to meet our economic needs cannot be met unless we have a way of reducing the overhead burden of our energy costs. If you want an example, one airliner reduced its load of cola carred for service by one can and saved thousands of dollars over the cost of a year (it was that much weight saved in fuel that did it). If you have cheap energy you can hire more people because transportation and shipping costs are reduced.

[annyokie]

Of course not! I am not going to be painted as black heart here.

[Nowhere Man]

I remember a similar thread where if the Republicans don't address this issue, the Democrats will and this will hurt us a lot in the long run. I don't think handouts from the government are the answer, but I think where the Federal Government can help is to cut personal and business income taxes (others too), stuff the H-1B visa program (foreign guest workers) completely, tax breaks for companies to keep jobs here instead of outsourcing, maybe some caps on liability lawsuits (that sent a lot of the private plane industry into the crapper), and yes, some tarriffs to balance the playing field a bit. some may agree with me, some my not, but I am afraid that if the Republicans don't address this, the Democrats will and/or some third party will and this could weaken our base.

BTW, my voting record was 1988 - George Bush, 1992 - George Bush (Pat Buchanan Primary), 1996 - Bob Dole, 2000 - George W Bush (Alan Keyes Primary). I could have voted in 1984 for Reagan but I registered too late, I turned 18 that summer. B-) I admire George W. Bush a lot and believe he is a moral man and what he is doing in the Middle east is fine, but I'm afraid that if we don't address the economy with these concerns, we might end up with a Democratic President in 2004. Right now I think Bush is a shoe-in but 17 months is a long time politically.

I know there are some people who overspend and I guess this is their problem but there are a lot of other people who through some misfourtune who need help. Maybe even then, it shouldn't be the Federal Governments role there either, it would fall to the States, but from above, I think there is some good Constitutional ways the Federal government can help.

[The Red Zone]

Well, 9/11 sure put a big, sudden dent in that sector of the economy. And the 'Rat-controlled (Mineta) ham handed implementation of Federal security measures that followed didn't help.

[HiTech RedNeck]

Anny, I apologize for baiting you. May the Lord guard you from any such thing as a devastating emergency that will wipe out your savings.

[Archangelsk]

cost = course

[annyokie]

I have been through many a harrowing time, my friend. My whole point is that these people didn't think a bad thing would happen to them. I lived and learned and could get humbled again.

[VOA]

"Why can't the president help people who are losing their houses and jobs?" Mrs. Salter asked.

1. Busy fighting and paying to bring terrorists to justice.
Until then Mrs. Salter, there simply won't be a rebound in commercial and civil aviation.

2. And Dubya has tried to bring weaken the trial lawyers...a large part of the
reason companies that build personal aircraft (e.g., Cessna) are thriving like they should.

In the late 1990's, Mr. Salter, 47, and Mrs. Salter, 44, earned a combined income of
more than $100,000 a year at Boeing, easily enough to pay $114,000 for their house.

>$100,000 per year (for 5 years..."the late 1990s").
In flyover country, that's manna from heaven and a fast track to owning a decent house
and a few acres free and clear.

This is just a repeat of a bunch of my friends during the oil-boom of the late 1970s-early 80s.
Some didn't even graduate high school and were pulling down >$50K/year working on oil rigs.

Only problem was they were spending $60K/year buying cars, rounds for their buddies
and impressing the babes with cash expenditures.


Once again, those who ignore history (the reality of the business cycle) are the
ones who wail the most when their gravy train runs out of steam.

Oh, and any lurkers/posters can save the flames.
I grew up in north-central Oklahoma and spent about every other weekend in
Wichita at my mom's parents' place.
There have been boom-bust cycles in the plane industry in Wichita (and Seattle)
since the industry started.

(Although this may be a bit different with the outflow of work to lower-cost producers
like China and to subsidized workforces like Airbus.)

[RAT Patrol]

If the illegal alien problem was handled, how much could taxpayers spend on border/federal cops BEFORE they matched our current outlay on goodies for illegals?

[kcvl]

We can cut out $1 million in funding for the "endangered flies"(didn't even know they existed until recently). There is much more stupid crap they can cut also.

[RAT Patrol]

Thats 18,200 people.

So, what do you propose we do for that many people? Keep in mind this is just one city. They have already received unemployment benefits. Unless the economy turns around, they will be right back in the same boat at the end of any unemployment benefit extension. Should we just pay them indefinitely until the economy turns around? Won't that likely delay the economic recovery and perpetuate the problem? How many MORE people will be laid-off while we delay the recovery?

Tragedy happens. They need to sell their stuff and move if that's what it takes. There are real tear-jerker stories out there I'm sure. This ain't it.

[RAT Patrol]

With oak cabinets, a big desk, a computer and shelves for machine-design software, he has built a handsome office in his basement for Professional Aerospace Consultants, the business he started three years ago. But he completed his last, small contract in December.

Here's the capital. It consists of cabinets, a desk, a competer, shelves, and some software IN HIS BASEMENT. That's not what jacked-up his debt.

[Poohbah]

Yup.

One joke I've heard is that your capital expenditures for consulting are:

One (1) laptop computer with Microsoft Office
Five (5) dark blue pinstriped suits
Five (5) white button-down shirts
Five (5) maroon neckties
One (1) Cellular phone

And that's all you REALLY need.

[EVO X]

How in the world can their mortgage be $1500 a month? Did they borrow at 16%? Something's wrong here. Ditto! The numbers don't add up in this story..

[kcvl]

All we have to do is point out what a MISTAKE it was for people to vote against Bush and vote for Clinton. I don't think ANYONE wants to go through that again.

You do know that it's not always "the economy stupid"? 9/11 proved that! How about it's our lives if a president IGNORES our security(which Clinton, et al, did) and will do again if another Democrat is elected. Most of them hate our military(and anyone who disagrees with them...they don't just disagree with us but HATE US!).

[RAT Patrol]

This shows how they think: Mrs. Salter is one of those calling on local charities. She needs dental work and help with her ulcer. She wants help with a place to stay when the house is sold. She and her husband might need counseling because of the strains of unemployment on their marriage. "We're having a rough go," Mr. Salter said.

Their 10-year-old daughter, Kara, may need help too. She has been acting up over fears of losing her friends, her pets and her home.

Perhaps the dental work and ulcer are emergencies, but counseling? Go to a church and get it for free. Call a friend or family member. We can't be required to pay for the counseling of all sad laid-off workers.

If they expect charities to pay their rent, what are they planning on doing with the $40,000 they get from the sale of their house?

And true friends don't dump you because you move. Give you kid a hug and tell her she is loved no matter what.

[RAT Patrol]

It sounds like that's pretty much what he had.

[thinking]

There should be some rules regarding offshore companies....if you want to sell in the US, then 70% of your product has to be made in the US.....!

[BudgieRamone]

Its easy for the house to go from 114,000 to 185,000..its called the Sedgwick county appraisers office...its called local option budget taxes. I live in Wichita, I am an aircraft worker, writing this. I bought a modest home 5 years ago for a neat sum of 35,000 dollars--then the county reappraises it and jacks it up to 38,000 for tax purposes I fought that and got it knocked back to 37,100. The next year ..needing more money to feed failing public programs and a poor performing administration heavy school district, they jacked up the appraisal value on my house to 41,500...I fought that and got it knocked back to 37,100 where it sat for 2 years. This year i got my tax notice and bang it went up to 41,500 AGAIN (it is slated to go up again I got a peek at its "pre-determined" value for the next years hike.)
This town is messed up. The state is looking at hiking taxes again, because all the folks out of work have helped to erode the tax base. Not working = not paying taxes and that hurts the state--Unfortunately we now have a Democrat governor (who is against concealed carry--gotta wait another 8 for any hope on that issue)

Anyway, I have problems with keeping coherent and before I meander anymore, my overall take on whats going on here is that thanks to all the laws that favor big businesses shipping out their production work, we aircraft workers are now in a bad position. Its not that we are all fat lazy pigs stuffing ourselves with money. 20.00 an hour may seem like a lot, but stores around here price products according to a "Boeing standard" which means that a Boeing workers wages determine what we pay for a loaf bread or jug of milk.
I am one of the lucky folks who has a job and was able to find one--hard getting hired anywhere if you are a laid off aircraft worker, It took me 9 months to find a new job after I got laid off (worked for Raytheon aircraft) I was flat out told in some places "We are not hiring any laid off (insert company here) workers".
This "free trade" stuff has hurt American workers like nothing else and I wish I could get it to stop. Put such a high Tariff on manufatured stuff coming into the country that it doesn't pay to ship it out for manufacturing in the first place.
Another neat item of note is that manufactured parts for airplanes made else where--Mexico specifically--seem to have quality control problems just a thought the next time you fly.