The Union And Confederacy Contradictions In Freedoms And Rights

The Sierra Times ^ | April 10,2003 | Dorothy Anne Seese

[Non-Sequitur]

You always insist on skipping over the Ninth and Tenth Amendments.

Nonsense, I just take them to have a different meaning than you. I believe that there is sufficient evidence that indicates that unilateral secession as practiced by the southern states was not permitted.

[canalabamian]

My response was "how many of these troops want to overthrow the government of the United States?"

...and showed your misunderstanding of the WBTS. The South never tried to overthrow anything...they just left (i.e., SECEEDED) and were forcibly brought back in to the Union.

You seem intelligent, but can't seem to grasp the basic concepts of the issue.

[Non-Sequitur]

One in ten people who could own slaves in the South, did.

You have to look at slave ownership in total. When I was growing up I had two sisters and we owned one car, title in my fathers name. So you could say that only 20% of the family owned a car, but 100% received the benefits of car ownership. Likewise with slavery. Those 10% of the southerners who ownes slaves had wives and children. So in some states the number of people who lived in slave owning families approached 50%. Quite a difference.

You must also bear in mind that slavery wasn't just a Southern thing. It existed in most states of the Union.

Slavery was legal only in 15 states. New Jersey had a handful left as a result of their manumission laws.

I daresay that precious few of those in the North thought of blacks as equals -- Lincoln sure didn't.

True, but the same can be said of virtually every white person in the south. And while Lincoln believed that slavery was wrong the southern leaders and virtually all the white population believed that they were fit for nothing but slavery. So who is worse?

[Non-Sequitur]

Open to debate.

Hardly, considering that Jefferson Davis did institute an income tax.

What are your numbers? I have varying totals.

The figures I've seen run between 620,000 and 650,000 dead on both sides from all causes.

[Hacksaw]

If you do, then I guess you and Sgt. Hasan Akbar are "walking the same walk," now aren't you?

I suspect that as a black Muslim, Hasan Akbar's views on the Southern Cross were not much different than your own, or the rest of the Wlat Brigade.

Your attitude is kind of like telling a Puerto Rican soldier that he should not be proud of Puerto Rico.

[Non-Sequitur]

It was a union of soveriegn states -- the ability to withdraw from the union is part of that sovereignity. Go and learn.

Withdraw? Perhaps. But to do so in a unilateral manner without the approval of the other states? No.

[Non-Sequitur]

The South never tried to overthrow anything...they just left (i.e., SECEEDED) and were forcibly brought back in to the Union. <p. That's what happens when you insist on shooting up our fort on the way out. Don't start the war unless you're willing to accept the outcome.

[Illbay]

You both share hatred of the nation you supposedly fought for.

And I have never, ever said you can't be "proud" of your family, your high school, your city, your state, whatever.

Just don't go whining about how "it would have been better had the South won their war for 'freedom'" and then try to tell me you are "patriotic."

You might have taken the paycheck, but like "Sergeant" Akbar, it was a sham.

[Illbay]

BTW, I absolutely LOVE your "Pablo Escobar Medal of Freedom" gag. It's great.

[Hacksaw]

You both share hatred of the nation you supposedly fought for.

And that is a flat out lie in so many ways. It seems you can not accept the fact that people can partake in southern pride and still support the USA. Slandering southern US soldiers by comparing them to the Muslinm fragger (even though he would support your views) will not help.

And - as a challenge to you, you can do a search of my posts and show where I have expressed hatred of the US. You will not find them, but it might be an interesting exercise for you. You might be surprised at how much we agree on except this issue.

[canalabamian]

It would be useful to know if we really DO have traitors among our troops, but I suspect this is a mere fantasy of this kind of cretinish moron.

Southerners have always served, and still do. Because we are proud of our heritage doesn't make us traitors.

You dropped off of a thread a few weeks ago when queried on YOUR service record. So, once again, unless YOU have ever taken the oath to defend OUR country, just say "Thank You" for your right to show your A$$ and shut your pie hole.

[Godebert]

"AND THANK YOU GENERAL SHERMAN for helping the people of the South realize what their rebel leaders were too foolish to: That they could not win - and that they were part of one nation, indivisible. Do rebels who are still fighting the Civil War say that part of the Pledge of Allegiance? OR, are they like the liberals on the 9th Circuit?"

I didn't think you blue-zone socialists ever said the Pledge of Allegiance.

[Illbay]

No one here does now or has ever slandered the "south."

What I have done is call the "confederacy" nothing but an illegal rebellion.

I'm born and raised in Alabama, and live in Texas. I'm proud of being "southern," but I'm more proud of being American. And ANYONE who messes with America goes down.

[Illbay]

Well let's see, since you don't make the rules, my pie hole stays open.

I didn't serve in the military, but I love my country no less.

Jimmy Carter did serve, and he has been absolutely traitorous. Asan Akbar served, and he is a traitor.

It isn't IF you serve, but how.

And I pay my taxes. I paid your salary. How about that?

[canalabamian]

No argument, about it...the CSA lost. It doesn't change the fact that they seceeded. There never was an attempt to OVERTHROW anything. That was my point. Minor detail in your mind, I'm sure.

[canalabamian]

You = Illbay

Just wanted to point out that he went down this road before and never ponied up.

[Non-Sequitur]

There never was an attempt to OVERTHROW anything.

I never suggested that you were out to ovethrow anyone. But you did initiate hostilities by firing on Sumter and by declaring war afterwards. You should be prepared to accept the responsibility for your actions.

[canalabamian]

EVERY service member pays taxes. So, I also help to pay my salary.

Unless you took the oath, you have no place to question anyone's patriotism. Asan's actions were traitorous...hardly comparable to one having pride in their history.

Please don't further embarrass the rest of us Alabamians.

[Illbay]

I will question ANYONE'S patriotism, no matter who he is, when he makes statements like "the Confederacy was right, and the 'War of Northern Aggression' was the beginning of tyranny," blahblahblah.

Like I said: Asan Akbar was ALSO in uniform. Guess I can't question his "patriotism."

Like h*ll I can't.