Looters Ransack Baghdad's Antiquities Museum

Reuters ^ | April 12, 2003 | Hassan Hafidh

[brydic1]

170,000 items disapeared in two days. Assuming that each looter carried off 10 items, that would mean that 17,000 looters participated. Quite a feat. I also just read in the Washington Post this evening the following, "The fact that the vaults were opened suggests that employees of the museum may have been involved," said the employee, who declined to be identified. "To ordinarily people, these are just stones. Only the educated know the value of these pieces."

I believe their may be a lot more to this story than meets the eye.

[Theresa]

"Instead of immediately jumping on the bandwagon blaming the American troops who fight so you can post such drivel,"

I blame the planners, not the troops.

"Perhaps you should consider that there were extremely legitimate reasons why that museum could not be protected by the troops."

It's a museum filled with irreplaceable artifacts. They should have planned to have it guarded. There were troops in the area. It should have been in the war plan as part of preserving the infrastructure. It is as important as the oil wells. It would have been the icing on the cake of a spectacular campaign to have newspaper headlines that read, "Museum secured, ancient artifacts guarded by coalition troops."

Oh well to heck with it. I don't want to argue about it anymore.

[Lauratealeaf]

I am telling you right now these particular material things should have been guarded at the risk of human lives. By your logic you would have to argue argue that bankers think more of their money than human life because they hire bank guards who risk their lives to protect that money. You are going to have to argue that if a guy comes to rob a bank you can't shoot him but must let him take the money because his life is worth more than the money. Suppose a mob went into the Smithsonian and took everything in it. How would you like that? How do you propose to stop that mob unless you threaten them with force, even deadly force? The fact is that in human society we pay people to risk thier lives protecting property. That's how important property is. So please don't get on some sort of moral high horse.

Weren't you judging the military for not protecting the museum? It is obvious from your statements that you know very little about the military and its mission. They are not in Iraq to be traffic cops or babysitters or bank guards.

They are still focused on completing their mission and destroying the fedayeen. I have friends and family over there and their job is to win a war, not to protect property. If the enemies capability is degraded and circumstances permit then our soldiers will fulfill the requirements that are within their mission statement.

This is true now, was true in World War ll and has been true for our army since our nation was formed. These people are soldiers not security cops. The training they receive requires total concentration and fulltime focus.

I have a friend who is a policeman. The training he receives is very different from the training of our military. The function of the military is to destroy the enemy before he destroys you.

The function of a policeman is to uphold the laws that govern our country. A secondary requirement for a policeman could require him to use deadly force.

The reactions and the training of these two missions are tremendously different. There are military police, however, the last administration cut them so much that we don't have even enough to insure combat mission requirements, much less, police a city.

If these soldiers are ordered to police the city they will do so only when the military threat is neutralized and will do it only as long as it takes to get somebody else who is trained for the job.

To say that an army is responsible for policing a city is equivalent to thinking that the German SS did a good job in World War ll.

[Dengar01]

As General franks said, I think our troops have more pressing concerns than dealing with looters.

Being a history person, if they did indeed destroy ancient artifacts than they are barbarians. However, they can't blame US troops for people being barbarians. Was it the LAPDs fault when the looters went nuts in LA? I do think there is more to this story though. I don't have any clue why they would go and smash ancient pots if they did then hopefully the vigilanties in Baghdad will take care of them.

[PayrollOffice]

"The Americans were supposed to protect the museum. If they had just one tank and two soldiers nothing like this would have happened," she said. "I hold the American troops responsible for what happened to this museum."

Translation: My Government check is late!

[x1stcav]

I agree completely with your assessment that there's more to this story. If 'they' were there to loot, as several articles claim, then why would they break anything other than glass cases, etc.

Anyway, I'm sure these treasures of antiquity will find their way back home again. they're not worth anything sitting on a looter's mantle.

[Torie]

This ransacking of Iraq's premier museum of antiquities is a stain on the US war operation. Many objects from the cradle of civilization will probably be lost to mankind forever. This tragedy should not have been allowed to happen. No one will convince me otherwise. Don't bother. I am very annoyed, and frankly pissed. Someone dropped the ball.

[Torie]

This is a loss of the culture and history of the people of Iraq and of the world. Don't try to gloss it over. We screwed up.

One great big mega ditto. If Rummy tries to gloss this one over, I would slap him if I could.

[need_a_screen_name]

Any truth to the claim that the museum was seen by the Iraqis to be strongly related to the Baathist regime, so its pillaging was like ransacking one of Saddam's palaces??

That is what I heard on another forum.

[Torie]

Your post is total BS. The troops do protect what is vital. This museum was a jewel. Its loss is a horrible tragedy. It is a stain the US operation. I don't care about Saddam's palaces. But this wanton destruction is beyond the pale to have been allowed to happen. It is sort of like suggesting that US troops in Afghanistan had better things to do if they sat on their hands while the Bhudda statues were shelled. That dog simply won't hunt.

[Lauratealeaf]

Many objects from the cradle of civilization will probably be lost to mankind forever. This tragedy should not have been allowed to happen. No one will convince me otherwise. Don't bother. I am very annoyed, and frankly pissed. Someone dropped the ball.

It sure wasn't our troops. Get over your hissy fit and use some reason. The cradle of civilization has been rocked by an evil "mother" for so many years that many of the people have shaken baby syndrome. Some looted. Others opened the vaults. There is no way that so many people could have taken 170,000 artifacts in two days. Saddam's people are corrupt and they were running the museum. Our troops are performing their mission to win the war. They cannot be two places at once.

[Torie]

Pathetically weak as an attempt to exorcise a horrible cluster f**k. The most valuable artifacts were put into a vault that was broken into. To suggest the place had been pillaged by corrupt Saddam operatives before US troops got there is ludicrous, as time will reveal. And the US military planners are going to get their butt kicked for this one, and they should.

[Constitution Day]

More than unfortunate, this is terrible if it's true.

I've actually been wondering about the museum there lately.
My current reading includes Ancient Iraq by Georges Roux.

[Lauratealeaf]

Pathetically weak as an attempt to exorcise a horrible cluster f**k. The most valuable artifacts were put into a vault that was broken into. To suggest the place had been pillaged by corrupt Saddam operatives before US troops got there is ludicrous, as time will reveal. And the US military planners are going to get their butt kicked for this one, and they should.

I guess you were in Baghdad recently huh? So since you were there you know exactly what happened, right? You are believing what is reported totally without any doubt huh? Enough to condemn the U.S. troops while we are still at war? Something tells me you know very little about the military. I could, however be wrong. Doubt that you think you ever are.

[Torie]

What is beyond per adventure is that the "grunts" did not protect the museum. If they had, and found the place had been looted, then we would not be having this discussion. It is not the "grunts" fault. It is the fault of the planners. I want heads to roll. Deal with it.

[HairOfTheDog]

Good grief... This was a bump, but we can't let it be the end of the world. Planning is not perfect, timing is not perfect, judgment is not perfect. No one died here, we didn't bomb it, we just didn't get there in time to keep others from robbing it. Perspective is needed. None of us have ever been to that museum before this, and most would never have gone there after. And yet we survive. History and relics have highly emotional, not highly vital, value.

[Torie]

None of us have ever been to that museum before this, and most would never have gone there after.

That point of view is profoundly pernicious in my opinion. I am pleased to know, and indeed pay for, the preservation of things I will never see, because one who is civilized takes satisfaction knowing that they are there, for the enrichment and enjoyment and knowledge of our species in general. Would you be indifferent to Yellowstone or Gettysburg or whatever being spoiliated because you will never visit? Plus one can with the modern communications take trips where one's corpus need not leave one's home.

[wideminded]

This is true now, was true in World War ll

See post #169.

[Lauratealeaf]

See post #169.

We did not bomb the museum. Our military was very careful not to target sacred places. I believe we have a better record than the military did in World War ll. I have seen some of the destruction of the churches in Berlin. Looters looted the museum. That is unfortunate but we are still fighting this war.

[HairOfTheDog]

I said it was sad that the place was plundered. But we didn't do it. The point of view of valuing these relics above all else that is happening over there, and wanting heads to roll over artifacts that have only emotional value is what is profoundly pernicious in my opinon.