Putin warns US on more attacks

AFP ^ | 04-11-03

[MeekMom]

@$$ Alert!
Puty-Puty has Putted his last Putt!

[ETERNAL WARMING]

It's time to warn Putin....you will be treated on the basis of what the recovered intelligence says about you. My guess is that they have been guilty of supplying some very nasty goods to Iraq and other Arab countries. Illegal stuff. WMD stuff.

[Bonaparte]

"Interesting words from the Russia leader."

Hey, Vladmir, this just in -- you lost the Cold War, so finish your vodka and cookies and shut up.

[Shaka]

You're mis-reading him...he is as stunned as the Arab world is at the results. No way he could have even remotely thought we'd pull this off so successfully..in other words, he is scared schittless just like the Arabs. He's actually begging us not to do anything else with his vale threats. He's just scared. He has nothing to back his bravado up...except ancient Soviet power history.

[gcruse]

"We are not going to export capitalist, democratic revolutions,"

Evidently Boris Yeltsin's heroic stand atop a tank at
the Russian White House did not take.

[zonan]

If your industry is the sale of arms, this is the 'big one'. Definite 'sellers' market.

That's what I would have thought, but Lockheed Martin (and other contractors) stocks have been falling so much. Has the slow economy outweighed the war-time spending? Particularly in the case of LM, with the JSF contract, etc., I can't figure out why the stocks wouldn't be gaining rapidly.

Just thinking out loud.

[RusIvan]

Just red all the posters. Is someone here who may write something worth reading about Russia?
Just senseless rants nothing interesting at all.

Why you call Putin KGB Leader? I'm just curious.
Putin was some 38 year old when he retired from Intellegence directorate of KGB (the analog of CIA).
Wasn't he too young to be KGB leader?

Just think before write something down.

[RusIvan]

in other words, he is scared schittless just like the Arabs.+++

What he scared of?

[RusIvan]

They've proven where they stand -- and it's not with us. +++

If US will go after HK and Iran you may be amazed again.
You may find not at all objections from Russia.

[Savage Beast]

You're right, of course, Herm. And Bush is far too intelligent to throw away Siberia in a fit of pique.

Russia's population is decreasing, and Russia is in no position to cause serious trouble.

Chirac is no doubt toying with the idea of a strong France-Germany-Russia alliance, that would give France control of Europe and Siberia and thus make France de facto a superpower. He'll never pull that off.

Meanwhile, Bush has stunned the world with his courage and brilliance.

He will extend the olive branch to America's treacherous, double-dealing allies. He will succeed with Germany and Russia. France will continue to be a problem, but Chirac has proven himself to be no match for Bush, just as France is no match for the United States.

As Bush consolidates his strength in the Middle East, Germany and Russia will move back into solid alliance with the U.S. French influence, the U.N., and Chirac will diminish into irrelevance. This, of course, presupposes more brilliant leadership from George Bush.

You're right. It would be nuts to let Siberia slip away. And Germany and Russia are far too valuable to loose also.

[RusIvan]

His retired Generals were advising the Iraqi's, the Iraqi's were armed with mostly all Russian stuff. +++

Those generals wasn't his at all. They was former Soviet's. And they departed Iraq BEFORE war.

And Iraqis was armed with Soviet stuff. Plus some new russian's too which was smuggled there. But they was few.

[RusIvan]

You're right. It would be nuts to let Siberia slip away. And Germany and Russia are far too valuable to loose also.+++

It is interesting. You think Russia cann't defend herself with 6000 ICBM nukes? Who may attack her boldly and risk to get all on those on his head?
If China then I don't think so. It will be suicide for them.
Russia never will fight self restrictively.
Bye bye Beiging and all of thier cities in 20 minutes.

[Savage Beast]

No, Rus. I am well aware that Russia is quite capable of defending herself. (I am familiar with Leningrad, Stalingrad, et al.) No one in his right mind (neither Napoleon nor Hitler was) would dare to threaten, let alone attack, Mother Russia, and that includes the Chinese.

The decision that Putin faces is whether Russia would be better served by alliance with the U.S. or with France, i.e. a France that hopes to challenge U.S. hegemony by dominating the U.N. and Europe.

George Bush will aim to convince the Russians that it would be to their greatest advantage to ally themselves with the U.S. He will probably succeed.

Perhaps Putin has cleverly placed himself in an advantageous position--being courted by France and the U.S.--and being in a position to decide which has the most to offer.

It seems to me that Russia and the U.S. are natural allies and that each has too much to offer the other for either to abandon their alliance.

I also think that India is the natural ally of both.

I think that George Bush has shown stunning courage and intelligence. I think that in successfully opposing international terrorism and fanatical Islamic imperialism, he has shocked the world into re-evaluating its responses to such threats and has shown the world that effective leadership, such as he has shown, can successfully eliminate such threats.

This is obviously not lost on Vladimir Putin.

What do you think?

[Huck]

mea culpa, mea culpa. Once KGB, always KGB.

I have Russian friends that have told me a lot about life over there--then and now. Russia has a LONG way to go. I am dissapointed in Putin as well. President Bush reached out to him. I would like to see us send a msg to the Russian people--who by my experience are good people--that they can choose a leader who represents the 21st century and it will benefit them greatly. When is the next Russian election anyway?

[RusIvan]

Perhaps Putin has cleverly placed himself in an advantageous position--being courted by France and the U.S.--and being in a position to decide which has the most to offer.++++

IMHO Putin's problem is not to choose with whom to ally but how to save Russia independence.
I mean Russia all her history was alone. It is big country. Self sufficient and may live that way furthermore.

I think that Europe are simply more near hence more attractive to russians.
If you check how many russians went to Europe then the number are millions by now. Each year millions go to France or Spain on vacations. Many went to Germany.

US is far further. Over the ocean. And US don't give visas very easy. Europe has much easier visa policy.

So accually russian public don't know much about America then Europe.

Russia problems now are inner economical problems of most priority. Politics is not that important.

Russians well believe that they can solve all the problems themselves without any help.
Accually Russia tried to use US economical help during first years of independence (in 90s) once but it didn't work well.
So for now Russia will use only her own means.

So you may imagine that Russia don't need no expretise, no investments, no technology from anyone but just the markets to sell her goods.

What Putin doing now is simply get along with Europe which he likes very much because he lived there long years.
And Europe is most trade partner of Russia.

[bushfamfan]

Interesting how things ended up in Afghanistan also. It's clear Russia has a horrible time because people universally understand Russia is not a force for good. This Iraq situation shows Russia and China how they could be eaten from within because their govt's and the goals they seek are sinister.

[Savage Beast]

"Accually Russia tried to use US economical help during first years of independence (in 90s) once but it didn't work well."

The President of the U.S. in 2003--and therefore the U.S. government--are very different from that in the 1990's.

An alliance between Russia and Europe will amount to an alliance between Russia and Germany. Just how optimistic one should be about that is open to question.

It is true that Russians have been enamored of French culture at times, but in any alliance, France will be a nuisance more than anything else.

Like most Americans, I admire the Russian people and wish them well. They are certainly capable and to be respected. The people who produced Dostoyevsky, Tolstoy, Shostakovitch, Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninoff, Gorky, Chekov, Pavlov, Rimsky-Korsakov, Prokofieff, the Bolshoi Ballet, etc., etc., et al., who prevailed at Leningrad and Stalingrad, and who defeated both Napoleon and Hitler--are not to be underestimated.

[Bonaparte]

"You think Russia cann't defend herself with 6000 ICBM nukes?"

Yes, I think Russia can't defend herself with 6000 ICBM nukes. It's extremely doubtful that Russia is capable of launching even half that many. In case you didn't know, those missiles systems don't just sit there until they are used. They must be maintained, which is very complex and expensive. Russia is unable to do this, which is another reason why it was so easy for President Bush to unilaterally reduce our similar arsenal to just 3500 missiles.

Back when President Reagan pressed ahead with development of Strategic Defense Initiative, all of the left, including the Soviets, insisted that this would provoke a preemptive strike by the USSR. It never even came close to happening. Instead, the USSR dissolved into nothing when they ran out of resources to keep up with our SDI development. Russia is now a second-rate power, as proven long ago by their utter defeat in mortal combat by the tribesmen of Afghanistan.

Vietnam, you say? We withdrew just before Hanoi was about to capitulate and sign terms -- all because the democrats in Congress did not want Nixon enjoying the victory. The Russian military is in complete and total disarray -- demoralized, ill-equipped, underpaid and ineffective. All Russia capable of doing is supplying and assisting the islamist terrorist network in their vendetta against the West.

[RusIvan]

Back when President Reagan pressed ahead with development of Strategic Defense Initiative, all of the left, including the Soviets, insisted that this would provoke a preemptive strike by the USSR. It never even came close to happening. Instead, the USSR dissolved into nothing when they ran out of resources to keep up with our SDI development. Russia is now a second-rate power, as proven long ago by their utter defeat in mortal combat by the tribesmen of Afghanistan.+++

Sir you showed obvious misjudgements of Russia. It is very forgiven because you probably never was there and never know much about russian history.

1. Russia loves her weaponry. She was so much times the target of aggression. And in her turn russia did so much invations herself that there already common purception even adage.
"Truly allies of Russia are her armed forces".
Russians are eastern decendants of vikings. Even that name of nation russians created as derivative from viking word "Rus". The whole line of russian czars are decendant from viking duke Rurik.

2. Russia wars each 10-15 years. So each generation of russian men have thier war. Russian society always has war veterans of any ages.
For example. My grandfathers was war veteran, my dad was war veteran, my brothers are war veterans. Few of my nephues are war veterans too. Differents wars so.
It creates millions of men with real combat experiences.

3. Russia nuclier stategic forces are in good shape. Any russian easily agree to starve but those forces will get any fund which are nessesary.
There are tests conducted time to time. All works as normal.
Warhead hits bullyeys constatntly.
BTW if you held in your hand AK 47 once you may understand that this rifle is very reliable. If you pull the trigger it shoots always. Then I tell you ALL of russian military machinery are designed same way. So be sure if they press the start button missiles will start and they will explode right on target.

4. SDI things never destroyed USSR. Accually USA run herself in deep debts because of Cold War. You check US debts which near 6.5 trillons of dollar and Russia's debts now which is like 70 bln of dollars. You see my point?

5. USSR crumbled because russians decided that they had enough of it. Soviet Union wasn't russian state. So Gorby was first russian in complete charge of USSR. He destroyed it.
Same Gorby departed from Afganistan after 7 years of war which took 15000 soviets (9000 was russians) and 1.5 millions of afgans. It was senseless killing of afgans.
Accually if there wasn't Gorby then Soviets eventually would slaughter all afgans and depopulate the country.
Too much for Afgan victory?

These facts which never got publicity on west because it is not very propagandistic. But specialists know them very much.

Today Russia stands better then USSR. She inhereted all of USSR weaponry. So she safe.
She have all of USSR business. She sells same goods for hard currecies which she was compelled to give for free by USSR. All USSR clients now are on US payroll. But they still need russian oil and gas. So they pay Russia with real money instead of "thank you" like it was during soviet times.

I may talk lot more. But I silence now.

[Bonaparte]

RusIvan: "Sir you showed obvious misjudgements of Russia. It is very forgiven because you probably never was there and never know much about russian history. "

I'm glad you are so forgiving. I'm forgiving too, RusIvan.

RusIvan: "The whole line of russian czars are decendant from viking duke Rurik."

The House of Rurik lasted from 862 AD until about 1600. Then in 1613, the House of Romanov began with the coronation of Czar Mikail Romanov who was not descended from Rurik but from an entirely separate line that traced its ancestry back to only the late 13th century. So for 300 years, from 1613 until 1917, no Russian czar was descended from Rurik.

RusIvan: "Russians are eastern decendants of vikings."

It's always been my understanding that about 80% of Russians are eastern Slavs and are not descended from Vikings. Are you sure about this, IvanRus?

IvanRus: "Russia nuclier stategic forces are in good shape. Any russian easily agree to starve but those forces will get any fund which are nessesary."

Looking at the economic facts, about 35% of Russia's population is already going hungry. These people live in poverty, below the minimum subsistence level. Much of the funding for decommissioning many of your old missiles and safely disposing of your nuclear waste has been coming from the United States. We have given and loaned your country billions of dollars in the past decade so that Russia can accomplish this.

IvanRus, do you really think the size of your national debt is a reliable indicator or your prosperity? The US can afford to carry a large indebtedness. It doesn't mean that we aren't prosperous, just as a small national debt doesn't mean that a country is wealthy. We send foreign aid to Russia. Russia does not send foreign aid to us. Do you see my point?

Anyway, I appreciate your taking the time to discuss these things with me. And I respect that it is difficult for you to discuss these things in English. Thankyou for doing so (I don't speak a word of Russian). I look forward to talking with you more.

By the way, I have held a good many AK-47s in my hands and I have fired a couple of them. The best I've seen was manufactured in Yugoslavia some time ago. It had a beautifully machined receiver, very nice work. Most AKs are very reliable weapons, although I prefer my FAL .308 as a primary combat weapon. It's rugged, accurate over a decent range and can double as a hunting weapon.