The next battle for Pfc. Jessica Lynch

WND ^ | April 10, 2003 | Jane Chastain

[brickdds]

I am patiently awaiting PFC Lynch's first comments on this matter.

I am too. Call me skeptical, but I am unsure of the report of her unloading her weapon etc. followed up with the label hero. Why?
(1)The original report on her was made while she was imprisoned, obviously SHE never made this claim.
(2)Being that noone else who was there and actually saw the debacle was able to survive or escape and thus corroborate the story either.
(3)The story also claimed that she had been shot and stabbed, which turned out to have been untrue certainly raises doubts about the authenticity of the gunfight claim.
(4)In that story, the report of the events cites an "unnamed US official". I am always leery about reports which have unnamed sources which have no way of being verified for authenticity.
That said, I welcome the truth and look forward to HER account of what really happened. If she really did gun it out with the enemy then that's awesome and worthy of recognition. It is also what should be expected of anyone in combat who has access to weaponry; that is why they were trained and armed, to kill the enemy. But I am a little hesitant to throw around the term hero as many on this site are wont to do. There are heroes in this story, however. The Iraqi who risked his life with NOTHING AT ALL to gain and EVERYTHING TO LOSE is a true hero. The spec ops who returned her safely are heroes in my book as well. I guess what I am saying is that the way I see it, a hero is someone who puts their own life at great risk in an effort to secure the life of another. These folks deserve recognition for going above and beyond the call of duty. That is why we have the CMoO, Navy Cross, Bronze/Silver Star etc. I have the highest regard for our warriors who put it all on the line and they should be held in the highest regard. Those folks in non-com and support roles also deserve recognition for their service. But to say that ALL are heroes cheapens the meaning of the term, which used to apply to only a select few. But when you have people who call athletes who jump up and cram a ball into a netted hoop heroes, then I suppose it stands to reason. But I digress.

[FirstTomato]

Women are in all the roles they can conceivably qualify for now

In reality, they don't "qualify" for any, because the standards are lowered for them.

But the rest of your statement is patently absurd, as is most of your argument for the feminization of the military.

And to argue using the "cat is already out of the bag" reasoning is illogical. With that reasoning, I suppose we conservatives should stop fighting for the rights of the unborn? Afterall, the right to kill your unborn child is already "out of the bag". So we should just put down our pro-life rally signs and walk away, shrugging our shoulders in surrender?

Leftists desire the complete feminization of the military, and they are patient (employing the "little by little, inch by inch" tactics) and devious. They don't want a strong defense of this nation--remember that. And this issue strikes to the core, as its a way for them to cripple our society. By supporting women in the military (except in medical or very minor roles) we are playing into the hands of these leftist fascists.

[peeve23]

Exactly.

In terms of billiards and chess, I see no reason to separate the sexes other than as a different variety of tournament.

Realize that I'm speaking specifically of those areas that a woman can do as well or better than a man. If there are aspects of the job that require strength, speed, etc. that are beyond a woman, then there must be a reasonable work-around available or the woman doesn't qualify. Period....no exceptions.

[usmcobra]

Wouldn't the complete feminization of the military, mean the removal of all males from the military? That isn't going to happen in anyone wildest dreams.

There is another point I've been holding back, since The 507th was made up of mostly reservists, who had probably hadn't fired a M-16 in years, PFC. Lynch, fresh out of recruit training was the perhaps closest thing to a real soldier in the lot. She at least, was familiar with her weapon having fired it at the rifle range for score only months previous. She was also uncorrupted by time, meaning that she hadn't had the time to embrace the attitudes often found in soldiers after years of service. In short she was a better shot then her salty seniors and still gung ho enough to do what she did.

I'm not trying to belittle the actions of the rest of her unit, they performed as well as could be expected for what they were, a bunch of reservists lightly armed in soft skin vehicles completely devoid of any fire support or heavy weapons. In fact They all performed to the highest standards of the Army, they were just out numbered, out gunned, unsupported and all alone in an ambush, someone should have foreseen.

One other note, earlier reports that she had not been shot have been reversed to say that some of her injuries were consistent with those suffered from small caliber low velocity bullets, and all additional reports of her injuries now describe them as wounds.

[Poohbah]

I dunno about that. I've heard that the services actually *reserve* a certain percentage of slots for women.

They will take any warm body, irrespective of sex, who is physically, mentally, and morally qualified to enlist. There is actually a *ceiling* on female enlistments (in practical terms) because of the requirement to fill X number of combat arms slots every year.

[Poohbah]

I didn't say "unable". I said unlikely.

Kindly explain why it is "unlikely."

[I_dmc]

curious, how goes the arguement against female police officers patrolling with male officers?

[kidd]

Jessica Lynch was a truck driver.

She got lost.

She probably stopped to ask one of the local people for directions and ended up being ambushed.

A man driver wouldn't have stopped for directions, thus no ambush.

'nuff said.

[Poohbah]

Do you understand how military column movements work> Are you trying to be funny? Or are you merely trying to be a jackass? Enquiring minds want to know.

[Poohbah]

But not likely able to be captured by the people we're most likely to face and most brutal to our women.

Again...why is this so?

[Poohbah]

All of a sudden you're concerned for their safety?

Apparently more concerned than the jackasses who assume that the women are safe at Corps HQ as opposed to a maintenance battalion that stays behind Division HQ.

Like I said, Jane winds up having to do it because Johnny ain't enlisting.

[I_dmc]

hmm, rape. I wonder, is it inherently worse for men or women to be raped by captors? Surely we don't pretend that male POW's are not subject to this humiliation.

[Michael121]

The P38 Lightning was a TWIN engine. If one engine stalled then over she went killing pilots. A test pilot flew the plane with one engine, doing airobatics rolling, thus disproving the myth. The F14 Eagle is also a TWIN engine. If one flames out you have to compensate. You still have controls they now become "heavy"

About 2 years or so ago there was a video of an F14 going into the ocean off a beach, (I can get all the specifics if you wish) the chute opened on the pilot. He was later interviewed. He was Hawaiian I think. But in his interview he said he lost one engine and fought the plane until he was no longer over a populated area. He said it took everything he had to keep it airborne. When he passed over the beach he ejected the F14 rolled to one side immediatly and went in. He still had flight controls as did a P38, but the loss of one engine means you have to sort of fly it lopsided at least pilots say that is the way it feels.

[Poohbah]

Lose an engine close in to the boat, and you're in trouble.

F-14A pilots always complain of having to fly the engine and not the airplane.

[Beck_isright]

"Human Beings have somehow managed to keep the female half of humanity out of the direct effects of war throughout our history. All efforts should be directed toward getting the male half out of combat instead of getting the female half in."

Actually that is not totally true. I would suggest you start learning the history of Soviet women in combat in WWII. You would be quite suprised as to what you will find.

I used to have the same attitude as I was in the military during the 80's when this began. But my attitude changed. There are women that can handle combat, some better than some of the men I served with. You never know who will do what until you get into the s***. Until you've been there, done that with a soldier at your side, male or female, you never know how they will react.

V

[Movemout]

As a highly educated, "women can do anything men can do", I have to say- keep women off the front lines. I think it just leaves women in more danger to getting abused- you can rape a woman a lot easier than a man. That's the first thing we all think when we see a woman POW, and it's bad enough without "going there." It's not a matter of brains or ability- it's the matter of they are at a lot more physical danger if they are captured than men are.

Let me take a shot at this. I like you lawgirl so please don't be offended. There is some evidence that women weren't the only ones raped in Desert Storm. Given the reluctance of two of the women POWs to discuss the issue, one admitted some abuse and the other refuses to comment on the subject, it would probably be safe to say that no male would ever admit to sexual abuse by the enemy. Yet, it is well known that sexual abuse of male prisoners was prevalent by Iraqis during the invasion of Kuwait and by the Croats/Serbs during the war in Yugo.

My direct experience during service in two infantry dvisions in the 70s is that women are not really up to the physical challenge in a variety of ways. It is not due to lack of motivation but rather a lack of muscle,stamina, and sometimes, attitude.

Women have always been participants in war. Historically, when their guys lose they get raped anyway, whether they were combatants or not. They have paid the full price when husbands did not come home to support the family for the next few decades. So, in a way it is a specious arguement to argue whether women have a role in combat or not. It is like asking, "Do you want to pay in advance or pay on terms"

There is another valid question as to the effect of women on the front lines and their effect on male warriors alongside them. A recent article I read by an Israeli author seemed to indicate that Israel believes the overall effect to be a minus, i.e. that male Israeli soldiers will do tactically stupid things to protect female members of their unit. This is, also, an important consideration.

It is a complex problem which will not be resolved easily, if ever. I will tell you that based on over twenty years of service in the US Army that I would be much more comfortable in my mind if I didn't have to worry about female soldiers when the shooting starts.

[kidd]

"My real name is Francis. But if any one of you homos calls me Francis...I'll kill you."

"Lighten up, Francis."

[Dstorm]

I wonder if any of the male members of her unit were killed trying to protect her and the other females?

But I think the real fault with this whole incident lies with the Army and its training doctrine. The only time members of support MOS'es receive training in squad level tactics is basic training. I suspect that this unit would have faired better if the army had made that a part of their regular training.

[usmcobra]

"The F14 Eagle"???

Look you just showed everyone on this board you don't have the slightest clue about anything to do with military aviation, F-14's are called Tomcats and that isn't a nick name either, it is name given to it by Grumman, the makers of the Wildcat, Bearcat, Hellcat, Panther, Tiger and the other Navy cats "cat"apulted off Navy ships.

As for the P-38 there is no way you can equate 1939 technology with the aircraft of today, however if you want to continue to do so in an effort to prove the upper body strength of a man Vs woman argument I would point out that during WWII there was this organization called the WASPs a group of women ferry pilots that flew every type of military aircraft to their final destinations from the factories where they built. And many of them died in crashes doing the dangerous work of testing aircraft that had just rolled off rapid fire assembly lines, with little or no credit for the work they did.

[tang-soo]

I was telling my wife precisely this same story yesterday. However, I also told her about Schroder's interference in the case involving the female aviator that got special treatment which resulted in her death. She flew her aircraft into the side of a carrier after having made prior mistakes that would have had male pilots removed from the program. Schroder intervened and got her reinstated when others received no such treatment. Anybody remember her name and more specific information? Thanks in advance.