Iraqis destroy 2 Abrams tanks; loss is first in its 20-year history

Army Times ^ | March 25, 2003 | Sean D. Naylor

[BushMeister]

I've read several books on the Gulf War, and it seems that in GW I, the Iraqis were able to knock out several Abrams that had bypassed them because the Iraqi tank engines had been turned off, thereby generating no heat signature. Apparently, the Abrams were targeted from behind, several having their engines knocked out by enemy rounds. I think at least one tank had its ammo cooked off. In the Abrams, the ammo is in a separate compartment from the crew, the door to which only opens when the loader pushes his knee against a lever. This way, the ammo, if hit, explodes upward through a panel, keeping the crew safe. I've seen the test videos of this feature on some Discovery Channel-type show, and it's impressive. By contrast, all the Iraqi tanks have their ammo in with the crew, and a hellish firestorm and explosion is created within the tank when an Abrams round pierced the tank and sends white-hot spall flying through the turret.

It's interesting that the soldiers earlier said that "some of our equipment was damaged", or words to that effect. I think this info should have been kept hush-hush if possible. No need to encourage the Iraqis.

The Abrams is just about unbeatable against enemy armor and infantry if it keeps its front or side 30 degrees to the ememy. Let's hope we won't lose too many of these tanks in the coming battles.

[SevenDaysInMay]

We're finding out what those Russian air transports offloaded some months ago. Remember the embargo violation of "commercial" sales to Iraq? The UN took no action.

I suspect that Iraq has thousands of "technicals", pickups and flatbeds with .50 cal., ~20-40mm AA, and state-of-the artski laser aimed, fire & forget guided anti-tank missles (range 5km). 'Blackhawk Down' is the Baathists' favorite video.

We should expect swarming by OOday's ninjas. Our supply line is exposed as are our lead and flank tanks. These guys can swarm our tanks knocking them out from behind, stalling the advance. Mortars and mines will be problems.

I hope our daisey cutters preceed our M1-A1s into the breach. I pray that mini-guns with 10k+ rounds and .50 M2s on rings over cabs are as common as in WWII in our convoys. Bradleys heavy guns are too few so use Hummer/TOWs. We risk staggering casualties so we'd best set aside foolishness. (I don't want heads mounted on our tanks, yet.)

We must stop being chumps for "civilians". Strip 'em, and herd 'em into holding pens - to be released only when this show is over. This is time to stomp on some throats after we cut some. I bet that our Marines have developed a whole new attitude, Bless their souls.

I will be surprised if Iran doesn't leak jihadies to help defend "Islam". If we show weakness, Iran may even join this fight against us with their corps of new Russian T-90s. Iran has a lot of tricks bought from China and the federated Russia. Islamofascism and the post-commie fascists are at war with us. We must be ready to nuke 'em if they jump on our flank and 5th Fleet boats.

IMHO, we have entered the first white hot battle of a multigenerational war to save our Republic and our Western Civilization. Call-ups continue.

[ravinson]

Is the 7th cav. of the 3rd ID the same unit as the 7th cav. of the 1st cav. of Viet Nam and Korea, which is to say THE 7th cav.?

According to Freeper Mochamadness:

...3rd Squadron 7th Cavalry Regiment. 3-7 Cav is the eyes and ears of the 3rd Infantry Division. 1-7 Cav is part of the 1st Cavalry Division. 2-7 has been renamed to a battalion as opposed to a squadron and is a part of 3rd Brigade 1st Cavalry Division.

[finnman69]

This story is not true according to other sites.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/m1-intro.htm

During the Gulf War only 18 Abrams tanks were taken out of service due to battle damage: nine were permanent losses, and another nine suffered repairable damage, mostly from mines. Not a single Abrams crewman was lost in the conflict. There were few reports of mechanical failure. US armor commanders maintained an unprecedented 90% operational readiness for their Abrams Main Battle Tanks.

[OOPisforLiberals]

Every tank ever built is very easy to destroy if you can attack it from behind, below (large mine) or overhead. If those areas were as well armored as the front, they wouldn't be able to move.

Don't gotta tell me - I'm addicted to Battlefield 1942 :)

[TADSLOS]

3-7 Cav is the Divisional Cavalry Squadron organic to the 3rd ID. It's primary mission is providing reconnaissance, early warning and security to the Division in its zone. It is a composite organization made up of Ground and Aviation assets. Its numerical designation comes from its root organization, the 7th Cavalry Regiment, which is not in existence today. Each Army division has a Div Cav Squadron organic to it and is tailor equipped to the type division it is organic to.

[colorado tanker]

Speculation among officers of the 3rd ID is that this is the weapon:

KORNET E ANTI-ARMOUR MISSILE, RUSSIA

Kornet E is the name given to the export version of the Russian Kornet missile system. The system, first shown in 1994, has been developed by the KBP Instrument Design Making Bureau, Tula, Russia and is in production and service with the Russian Army and has been sold to the Syrian Army.

Kornet is a third generation system, developed to replace the Fagot and Konkurs missile systems in the Russian Army. It is designed to destroy tanks, including those fitted with explosive reactive armour (ERA), fortifications, entrenched troops as well as small-scale targets. The system can be fitted to a variety of tracked and wheeled vehicles, including the BMP-3 infantry fighting vehicle, as well as serving as a standalone, portable system. The self-propelled Kornet missile system is manufactured by the Volsk Mechanical Plant, Volsk, Russian Federation.

MISSILE

The launcher fires Kornet missiles with tandem shaped charge HEAT warheads to defeat tanks fitted with ERA or with high explosive/incendiary (thermobaric effect) warheads, for use against bunkers, fortifications and fire emplacements. Armour penetration for the HEAT warhead is stated to be 1200 mm. Range is 5 km.

One soldier with the 3rd Infantry Division, a loader on a tank, was killed on Monday. Also two tanks and one Bradley fighting vehicle with the division's 3rd Regiment, 7th Cavalry Squadron were destroyed by anti-armored missiles. Officers here believe the missile may be a new Russian variant, known as a Cornet, purchased despite United Nations sanctions on arms sales to Iraq.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/876341/posts

[Cold Heat]

You are right, the Rooskies have been furnishing the Iraqis with them. I now hope the Russians suffer greatly in Chechnya for their back stabbing treachery

I suppose they are paying us back for the stingers we gave to the Afghans.(Unfortunately, what goes around comes around)

On another note, they have apparently violated their cherished U.N. resolutions. They have some egg on face.

BTW, Your screen name gave my spell checker a headache! LOL

[pfflier]

Probably not a TOW but the RUSSIAN SAGGER antitank weapon.

[Cold Heat]

Is that wire guided?, Like the TOW?

That was the first info that I recieved quite some time ago.

[meyer]

We must be ready to nuke 'em if they jump on our flank and 5th Fleet boats.

Unlike the previous administration, I doubt if this President will lose track of "the briefcase".

[Hugin]

Thanks for the clarification. Makes sense.

[colorado tanker]

My understanding is the latest version of Kornet is line of sight, laser guided.

[bravo whiskey]

there are only 2 cavalry regiments in the army; 2nd at ft polk and 3rd at ft carson. there is a "regimental" designation system that has a battalion and then the regiment ie 4 bn 64 armor "regiment" (4/64 ar) unlike WW2 the battalions do not fight as regiments. tsome battalionsd will be in the same brigade, others will not. so with the exception of the 2 armored cavalry regiments (2nd and 3rd) nobody else is actually a regiment. the 1st cavalry division is an armored division not a cavalry division. each division has a cavalry squadron (equivalent to a tank or infantry battalion) for reconaissance. 3/7 cav is most likely the recon squadron of the 3rd infantry dividion. 1/7 cav, if it exists, is in another division.
i'm sure thaey honor the linrage of the 7th cav from the ia drang campaign and earlier campaigns. when i was in germany in 1978 there was a 7th cav squadron assinged to 8th ID or 1 AD not sure).

[bravo whiskey]

jeez i need to edit my typing better or everyone will think i'm an idiot.

[RightWhale]

The two tanks saw tracers from behind them and were maneuvering to return fire when, within seconds of one another, each took hits from their rear and burst into flames.

Coax sighting technique.

[RightWhale]

Mismanagement of tank resources. Tanks sitting out in the open without covering infantry are good as dead. Pairs of tanks can sometimes cover each other, but they have to be watching each others backs.