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'Outsourced' economy {"Free" trade}
The Washington Times ^ | March 7, 2003 | Paul Craig Roberts

Posted on 03/08/2003 6:04:49 AM PST by George Frm Br00klyn Park

Edited on 07/12/2004 4:01:20 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

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To: George Frm Br00klyn Park
Thanks Geo & all for connecting the dots.
21 posted on 03/08/2003 7:38:34 AM PST by irgbar-man (It's love it or leave it time in America again.)
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To: George Frm Br00klyn Park
<>I>Guys, Suppose, just suppose, that one of or a few of our "trading 'partners'", who are shipping US more than we do to them {I.E. China} decide that our war with Iraq bothers them so much that they elect to economically embargo US. Many U.S. of A. folks would go without clothing and shoes and other such "non"-essentials.

What makes you think so? I think it might be a boon for Mexican textile workers, though.

22 posted on 03/08/2003 7:47:54 AM PST by Huck
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To: George Frm Br00klyn Park
Good morning, George!

Globalists always forget that there were instances under which Adam Smith approved of tariffs. Excerpted and condensed from:

Adam Smith: The Wealth of Nations, Book 4, Chapter 2

Of Restraints upon the Importation from Foreign Countries
of such Goods as can be produced at Home

"There seem, however, to be two cases in which it will generally be advantageous to lay some burden upon foreign for the encouragement of domestic industry...

  • The first is, when some particular sort of industry is necessary for the defence of the country....

  • The second case, in which it will generally be advantageous to lay some burden upon foreign for the encouragement of domestic industry is, when some tax is imposed at home upon the produce of the latter. In this case, it seems reasonable that an equal tax should be imposed upon the like produce of the former....

As there are two cases in which it will generally be advantageous to lay some burden upon foreign for the encouragement of domestic industry, so there are two others in which it may sometimes be a matter of deliberation; in the one, how far it is proper to continue the free importation of certain foreign goods; and in the other, how far, or in what manner, it may be proper to restore that free importation after it has been for some time interrupted....

  • The case in which it may sometimes be a matter of deliberation how far it is proper to continue the free importation of certain foreign goods is, when some foreign nation restrains by high duties or prohibitions the importation of some of our manufactures into their country. Revenge in this case naturally dictates retaliation, and that we should impose the like duties and prohibitions upon the importation of some or all of their manufactures into ours....

  • The case in which it may sometimes be a matter of deliberation, how far, or in what manner, it is proper to restore the free importation of foreign goods, after it has been for some time interrupted, is, when particular manufactures, by means of high duties or prohibitions upon all foreign goods which can come into competition with them, have been so far extended as to employ a great multitude of hands. Humanity may in this case require that the freedom of trade should be restored only by slow gradations, and with a good deal of reserve and circumspection. Were those high duties and prohibitions taken away all at once, cheaper foreign goods of the same kind might be poured so fast into the home market as to deprive all at once many thousands of our people of their ordinary employment and means of subsistence. The disorder which this would occasion might no doubt be very considerable....


23 posted on 03/08/2003 7:48:22 AM PST by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)
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To: George Frm Br00klyn Park
Guys, Suppose, just suppose, that one of or a few of our "trading 'partners'", who are shipping US more than we do to them {I.E. China} decide that our war with Iraq bothers them so much that they elect to economically embargo US. Many U.S. of A. folks would go without clothing and shoes and other such "non"-essentials. Economics and war do somewhat coincide.

China gets most of its oil from the Middle East. I dont think they want to cut us off from our shirts and jeans or they wont have the power to run their industry. I mean after all, how many aircraft carriers does China have in total, much less stationed in the middle east. I believe we have six carrier taskforces there now. No one thats selling us goods is going to care enough about Iraq to cut off their own economic growth, not even the French.

24 posted on 03/08/2003 7:55:53 AM PST by Dave S
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To: George Frm Br00klyn Park
I.E. China} decide that our war with Iraq bothers them so much that they elect to economically embargo US. Many U.S. of A. folks would go without clothing and shoes and other such "non"-essentials. Economics and war do somewhat coincide.

I have been saying that for years. That is precisely why this Globalist crap is a threat to our national security and our national independence. clinton's boom would have been an inflationary disaster, except that he was able to export jobs to "mask" the inflation with low cost 3rd world labor. The clinton boom was a very short run "success" with serious long run implications. Now, the Chinese have us by the cajones. All they have to do is jerk a little, and they will control our pleasure seeking "economic studs." Rather than enduring a normal economic adjustment, clinton led the nation to the choice of surrendering their national independence or suffering through a prolonged depression. He knew that the pleasure seekers will choose the first, which is why I believe clinton is a traitor.

25 posted on 03/08/2003 8:07:26 AM PST by ghostrider
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To: George Frm Br00klyn Park
Sounds like Ross was right.
26 posted on 03/08/2003 8:07:46 AM PST by GalvestonBeachcomber
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To: George Frm Br00klyn Park
As an "IT outsourcee" from Bank of America (1/3 IT jobs gone POOF!) I can tell you that the IT market is very slow in Southern California. I can also assure you that ain't nobody getting very much in the way of goods and services dollars from me for a while. At this rate Amway sounds good.

But I really feel for the poor sods in Charlotte (whence BofA had centralized it's IT operations), they will have to dump everything and go someplace where there are jobs.

BTW - IT = Information Technology

27 posted on 03/08/2003 8:32:43 AM PST by tlrugit
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To: Archangelsk
You mean the ones like Enron? The ones that went poof in the night? :-) No offense, but everyone knows that those profits turn right around and are exported out of the country along with any job growth here.

That's true, mainly because companies don't pay dividends any more. The best way for shareholders not to have to worry about what the company does with it's profits (or trust that those profits even exist) is if a significant share of those profits are in the shareholders' pockets. One of the most bizarre rationalizations of the recent bubble was the idea that dividends don't matter any more.

28 posted on 03/08/2003 8:47:04 AM PST by Stay the course
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To: tlrugit
At this rate Amway sounds good.

To paraphrase Satchel Paige, take a long nap (or exercise) until that thought goes away. :-)

29 posted on 03/08/2003 8:59:09 AM PST by Archangelsk (No battle plan survives first contact.)
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To: ricpic
When asked about it, the best they can come up with is a belief that American "creativity" will keep us one step ahead of the game. That creativity, in the guise of the dot com explosion, has failed once. Where is it coming from now?

As always, it will come from capitalism and risk taking in the form of new companies and new markets. But as you have demonstrated with your post, such things have been villified to the point that we'll have to look toward farmers, trucking, construction companies, and government for our economic growth. At least those are the sectors that the president highlights in his economic speeches.

30 posted on 03/08/2003 4:58:55 PM PST by Moonman62
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To: ricpic
The people pushing gobalization don't have an answer to the threat posed by high skilled low wage Asian IT (Intelligence Technology) workers.

That's actually a bit of a myth in my experience. I hire two programmers, one here in the US and one in South America. Both are incredibly talented, however the one from the US, who costs me *MUCH* more than the one in South America, has this little thing called the "traditional American work ethic". You would not believe the difference that makes. Not only do I plan on keeping my US programmer, but I look forward to the day I can provide him with his next raise and better benefits.

The American culture is in perfect harmony with our very technical environment, and the benefits of that cannot be underestimated. If other companies are moving their software dev offshore they are, as they say, "penny wise and pound foolish".

31 posted on 03/14/2003 9:46:43 PM PST by The Duke
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To: George Frm Br00klyn Park
"The advantage increases with the absence of tort lawyer extortions and harassing and fining IRS, EPA, OSHA, EEOC and other regulatory bureaucracies, whose budgets demand a never-ending supply of wrongdoers to be penalized."

Yup yup.... this isn't the problem.... it's FREE TRADE!!!

Pay no attention to those regulators and bureaucrats behind that curtain!!!
32 posted on 04/29/2003 12:09:24 PM PDT by Jason Kauppinen
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To: Jason Kauppinen
So are you saying that the costs of labor would be equal without the IRS, EPA, OSHA and EEOC, and with tort reform?
33 posted on 04/29/2003 8:56:47 PM PDT by 3LostLegions
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To: 3LostLegions
It would certainly help.
34 posted on 04/29/2003 9:04:49 PM PDT by Jason Kauppinen
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To: Jason Kauppinen
Equal: yes or no?
35 posted on 04/29/2003 9:06:24 PM PDT by 3LostLegions
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To: 3LostLegions
No
36 posted on 04/29/2003 9:07:45 PM PDT by Jason Kauppinen
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To: Jason Kauppinen
Thanks.

So if US labor costs are still higher than those offshore, producers will use offshore labor, assuming it's an equivalent subsititute, correct?
37 posted on 04/29/2003 9:09:09 PM PDT by 3LostLegions
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To: 3LostLegions
An economist would say, yes, other things being equal. Keep in mind though that the US can compete on things other than the cost of labour.
38 posted on 04/29/2003 9:11:43 PM PDT by Jason Kauppinen
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To: Jason Kauppinen
>>> Keep in mind though that the US can compete on things other than the cost of labour.

I agree. From a purely economic perspective, however, if we assume labor is an undifferentiated commodity then lowest price wins.

The question is then, from a purely economic perspective, when firms en masse obtain their labor from a new lower-cost source, what happens to the labor that the firms utilized previously?
39 posted on 04/29/2003 9:18:23 PM PDT by 3LostLegions
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