Foam supplier says Nightclub owner, Michael Derderian, bought non-fire retardant soundproofing

The Providence journal ^ | 02/28/2003 | By TOM MOONEY

[Nov3]

No way. The manufacturer or seller is not liable. This does not fall under product liability.

The seller can indeed be liable. If the seller sold the non-fire retardent soundproofing with knowledge that it was going to be used in this situation they may indeed be liable. I have mixed feeling about their liability but they are if they had foreknowledge of the fire hazard and supplied a material that was not suited for that environment.

[Nov3]

Dane licks the boots of any state official. SWAT team members get him really hot.

[Nov3]

Millions drank it at that temp every day without a problem.

Yeah in their 73 pinto or bobcat. Millions drove those without a problem.

[Dane]

Dane licks the boots of any state official. SWAT team members get him really hot

And it seems you like to choke your chicken, by making lame, redundant remarks from the Libertarian/ACLU handbook.

[Poohbah]

Dane, you're not usually this badly off-target.

FORGET THE FRICKIN' PYROTECHNICS! THEY ARE IRRELEVANT TO THE FIRE INSPECTOR'S JOB!

OK? Seriously, the FUTURE presence or absence of pyrotechnics is irrelevant to whether the club should even have been allowed to operate in the first place. The PRESENCE of large amounts of polyurethane foam is something that should have instantly shut down the frickin' club, and would have IF the fire inspector had actually done his job!

JMO, the club is the most at fault for putting the flammable foam on that wall, the band second for being negligent about lighting pyrotechnics in such a small space, and the fire inspector third.

Wrong. The club is at fault for putting the flammable foam on the wall in 2000. The FIRE INSPECTOR is responsible for permitting the club to remain open nearly three years despite the gross fire code violation inherent in using polyurethan foam.

I don't know the recent history of fires in West Warwick, RI, but from the evidence I have seen, and IMHO, the fire inspector was probably naive in thinking that people would never be stupid enough in lighting pyrotechnics in such a place.

THE FUTURE PRESENCE OR ABSENCE OF PYROTECHNICS IS IRRELEVANT TO THE QUESTION OF WHETHER THE CLUB WAS IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE FIRE CODE.

The State of Rhode Island has a fire code that forbids uncovered polyurethane foam--as I pointed out, the stuff burns like crazy (we used big swatches of the stuff as an emergency document destruction flame source in the Marine Corps if we didn't have thermite handy) and emits toxic gases while burning (which is why we preferred to have thermite handy).

[Nov3]

And it seems you like to choke your chicken, by making lame, redundant remarks from the Libertarian/ACLU handbook.

That is not how I choke my chicken! Is that how you do it or do you use a picture of some wannbee seal shooting a 13 year old in the back? The best part is when he is returned to full duty!

[Japedo]

The seller can indeed be liable. If the seller sold the non-fire retardent soundproofing with knowledge that it was going to be used in this situation they may indeed be liable. I have mixed feeling about their liability but they are if they had foreknowledge of the fire hazard and supplied a material that was not suited for that environment.

From what I understand this type of foam is Packaging Foam, and not intended to line walls with? How could the manufacture be held liable if the person buying doesn't use it for approved use?

[Nov3]

How could the manufacture be held liable if the person buying doesn't use it for approved use?

The manufacturer can't be. The seller if he knowingly supplied an unsuitable product may be.

[Dane]

OK? Seriously, the FUTURE presence or absence of pyrotechnics is irrelevant to whether the club should even have been allowed to operate in the first place. The PRESENCE of large amounts of polyurethane foam is something that should have instantly shut down the frickin' club, and would have IF the fire inspector had actually done his job!

Ok you have a point. But then there is the point of the permit which was never filed by the band or club. This tragedy probably would have never happened if the laws on the books about pyrotechnics being used in indoor spaces had been followed by the club and band.

We will have to agree to disagree. I do not believe that the owners maliciously put that foam up to kill people in a fire(although they may have not been malicious they were definately negligent). I do not believe the fire inspector ever expected a band to be stupid enough to put on pyrotechnics suited for a big arena in such a small space.

I can believe that a sinking metal band would set up pyrotechnics show with a negligent disregard for the surroundings in which they were to perform.

[Japedo]

The manufacturer can't be. The seller if he knowingly supplied an unsuitable product may be.

Not being in the business I'd like to ask.... Is it Normal practice to question the buyer what the product will be used for, and are these questions in writing? Just curious, thanks!

[Dane]

That is not how I choke my chicken!

Thank you for not elaborating on how you choke it and repecting the standards of this forum.

[Nov3]

Thank you for not elaborating on how you choke it and repecting the standards of this forum.

Dane, BUDDO, you are losing it worse than usual. Did I bring up that quote out of thin air? I caaannn'tt remember who originally used that quote?? Do You? We both can agree that whoever originally introduced it into this thread MUST have a complete lack of respect for this forum. Agreed?

[Nov3]

I don't know but if the buyer approached the seller with a request for sound deadening material for a public club and the seller supplied it for that use he may be liable. We will find out in a year or two.

[Dane]

Dane, BUDDO, you are losing it worse than usual. Did I bring up that quote out of thin air? I caaannn'tt remember who originally used that quote?? Do You? We both can agree that whoever originally introduced it into this thread MUST have a complete lack of respect for this forum. Agreed?

Uh dude you were the one who decided to make the snide remark behind my back in reply #162 of this thread.

If you are going to mention and comment about me in one of your replies, you can at least do it to my face.

[I still care]

I have a close friend who is a fire inspector. After knowing her for years, and going on a few calls with her, I can tell you right now that eggcrate would NEVER have gotten by her. I remember her giving a cafe owner a real problem because he had napkin holders too near the stove.

[stands2reason]

Of course it's the timber industry, selling all those planks and boards fully knowing how flammable they are without attaching "WARNING!" stickers in bright red letters...unforgivable,,,

[Nov3]

Ok in every law enforcement thread I have ever seen you on you were kissing up state officials no matter what the facts say. And yes we have exchanged words before over the bootlicking that was taking place. You have repeatedly personally attacked myself and anyone else who dare infer that police should take the same responsibility for actions that they demand other to take. I have never seen you take anything but kneejerk reactions to any questioning of any state law enforcement official now including an OBVIOUSLY INCOMPETENT or NEGLIGENT fire inspector. This guy OBVIOUSLY did not do his job. He left a flammable material on the walls and ceiling of this club when it was his duty to inspect it. No one can say that is not true. If he had done his job we would not be here period. We have these inspectors because people can be complete morons as this incident clearly illustrates.

[Poohbah]

There comes a point where even simple negligence becomes criminal. The club owner and the fire inspector both went WAY past that threshold. Yes, the band is also similarly negligent. They should hang as well.

[Japedo]

okay, Thanks :)

[BunnySlippers]

One of the news articles said that the Station had THREE fire inspections in 2002. They will go after this FD big time IMO.