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Hey; here's your chance. Paramount Studio reads Free Republic.


1 posted on 02/25/2003 11:14:23 AM PST by pabianice
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To: pabianice
I doubt it. The writers will never understand that they need to write a sci-fi show and not a discourse on whatever is the current pop culture PC issue that is popular at the time. These people really think they are shaping culture so to write a show that rocks is beyond them. It seems to me the writers and producers are more about making their version of political statements than generating an entertaining show.

It would be great if the show would take your suggestions but I don't think they have the fortitude or creativity to do so. It would be so alien, no pun intended, to their current mindset.

119 posted on 02/25/2003 12:26:45 PM PST by Captain Beyond (The Hammer of the gods! (Just a cool line from a Led Zep song))
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To: pabianice
Here's a thought (at least in our area)...

If you want to have a show watched by a large audience, make certain it airs on a TV station that actually has a good broadcast area and signal.

What I mean:

Where we live, the cable sucks - most people either just use an antenna or a combination of antenna and DirectTV/Dish Network. As we have a "local" UPN affiliate, no satelite version is accessable. Even better, that same supposedly "local" UPN affiliate has crummy broadcast quality. It is a UHF station, which in many markets is a loosing proposition anyway. combine that with poor tower location and shortage of wattage and that station really has a very limited viewing area (at least with a decent picture). I don't know if UPN stations are typically on the UHF band, but if so, this could be one of many parts to the problem.
125 posted on 02/25/2003 12:32:23 PM PST by TheBattman
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To: pabianice
The Trek producers have forgotten something: the original series was sort-of a mix of dozens of WWII navy epics and "Forbidden Planet" rolled into one, with a dash of social allegory for spice. They screwed the pooch with TNG, when they lost the ass-kickery and let the social allegory dominate the fun. I never liked that preachy series. DS9 was a pathetic B5 ripoff. Voyager had some gumption, but was a trifle too feminine for my tastes - and those of many SF buffs. I had HIGH HOPES for "Enterprise" - based on the presumption that these early voyages of not-quite-so-socially-evolved earthers would be a bit more ballsy, a bit more fun, a bit raunchier, a bit grubbier, a bit bloodier, a bit more chauvanistic, a bit less relativistic, a bit more... Kirk-ish, basically.
A side note: I think the whole "temporal cold war" is an illogical, unworkable, silly, and BORING premise. A pity it is the core around which the show's long-range unifying story arc is built - it cripples the show, in terms of disbelief-suspension.
Another side-note: what the hell are Ferengi doing showing up this early? And the Tholians, too? The Tholians were first encountered by starfleet by KIRK's enterprise (tholian web) and the Ferengi were first encountered under PICARD. Do these morons not know their own universe's continuity, or simply not care???
Vent off, now that I have exposed myself to be a trekkie nerd.
133 posted on 02/25/2003 12:41:24 PM PST by demosthenes the elder (slime will never cease to be slime... why must that be explained to anyone?)
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To: pabianice
Here's a rare still from the original series pilot.

It took quite a few years to finalize the contracts.


135 posted on 02/25/2003 12:42:37 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Ever So Humble Banana Republican)
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To: pabianice
Before I get to the subject at hand, let me point out TV Guide is incorrect in stating there was enthusiasm among Trekkers regarding "Nemesis." The film opened at number two, then took a 71% drop for the second week to number eight, and the following week, when "The Lord of The Rings: The Two Towers" opened, it was not even on the radar screen.

The reason was quite simple: "Nemesis" was crap. Period. The movie's script (by "Gladiator's" John Logan) betrayed the characters and insulted audiences with a storyline that made "Star Trek V" look like "Star Trek II" in its pomposity and obnoxiousness.

I personally made a point to avoid the film during its brief theatrical release; I may not even see it when it heads to video/DVD.

Now, on to how Star Trek can be saved:

1) Put Berman and Braga on the unemployment line immediately.

2) Cancel "Enterprise" after its season finale.

3) Hire a reliable polling service (like Zogby) to conduct a nationwide poll, to find out, among other things, what the best TV episodes are, the best movies, the best novels, the best comic book stories, the best writers.

4) From this information, develop a new television series that would hit the screen two years down the line: An anthology show that would feature a variety of characters, old and new, from the TOS and TNG universes, from the best damned Star Trek writers in the business.

5) "Nemesis" should be written off as a nightmare from Deanna Troi and the TNG cast given a more proper send off with a film adaptation of Peter David and John DeLancie's "I, Q." (or perhaps David's "Q Squared") Either way, I know for a fact fans wanted a TNG movie featuring Q. Giving them one as a final thank you and farewell would get the butts in the seats, I guarantee it.

Questions? Comments?

136 posted on 02/25/2003 12:43:18 PM PST by Houmatt (Users are losers. Losers are users.)
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To: pabianice
I guess I am one of the fans that drifted away.

Timeline:

I was born in 1975, so I grew up watching syndicated reruns of the original series on local TV... loved it! I would draw pictures of the Enterprise and Klingon ships. (Aw, heck, I still do sometimes... Here's one I did a few weeks ago using MS Paint, of all things.) I don't remember a time before I was into Star Trek.

Okay, so being born in '75, I was fortunate enough to miss out on the awful Motion Picture, with its interminable shots of the V'ger cloud and the same ominous chord playing over it 40 quadrillion times, interspersed with shots of pastel-pajama-clad (!) Starfleet officers gaping in awe.

The first Trek movie I can actually remember seeing is The Wrath of Khan -- wow, 180 degrees away from that 'Motion Picture' crap. Arguably the most dramatic movie of the franchise. Ricardo Montalban was a cool villain, the uniforms finally looked like something military, and there was everything lacking in the first movie -- tension, suspense, action, humor, and good characterization, consistent with the TV show. All around, outstanding.

The Search for Spock was not so good as 'Khan,' but it still was a creditable effort. Replacing Kirstie Alley's Saavik seemed a little weird, instead of just writing her out, but that can be overlooked. In fact, this movie has grown on me over the years... especially Kirk's devastated reaction to David Marcus's death. It's always cool to see Kirk's human vulnerabilities, because you know he's going to kick some @$$ afterwards, not sit and cry like Picard. :)

The Voyage Home, even with it's PC eco-nut save-the-whales theme, was thoroughly enjoyable, even without the Enterprise. A lot of humor, a lot of character interplay, and the 20th-century fish-out-of-water time travel device that still worked well then but has since been overplayed into predictability. Very well written.

The Final Frontier... from one awkward campfire scene to another... hmmm, well, the less said about this, the better. It was better than ST:TMP, but that ain't saying much.

The Undiscovered Country -- Excellent. Even though it stank as a whodunit, the plotting was very good, the characters were on-target, life on the Enterprise had a cool, dark, edgy quality, it actually presented some new ideas (i.e., detente with the Klingon Empire, even as the Cold War was ending in Real Life). Christopher Plummer as an outstanding villain, possibly better than Khan. My favorite Trek movie, overall.

I guess at this point I should talk about the newer TV incarnations. The Next Generation started off a little poorly, but it really improved in later seasons. A little too PC, but well-executed. It took me years to grudgingly admit it, but TNG ended up being a better series than the original in many ways. As long as you throw out any episode in which Riker is cleanshaven, that is. Best characters: Data, and perhaps Worf. Worst characters: Guinan and especially Weasely Crusher.

Next was Deep Space Nine. I have mixed opinions about this show. I really liked some of the characters (O'Brien, Kira, Bashir and especially Odo) but the stories seemed to fall flat. They tried to shake it up some by adding the Defiant, but it still didn't really click. One big difference introduced in this series was extended, overlapping story arcs -- an admirable goal, and more like real life, but they also made it hard to appreciate individual episodes without having seen the previous ones. Overall, this series was fairly good, and worth watching, but didn't deserve any feature films. I didn't watch it nearly as faithfully as TNG.

Voyager -- what on earth happened? I watched a handful of episodes and never watched again. Maybe they got better later on, but that's not what I've heard from those who did watch. The characters were flat, and the stories were pitiful. Janeway's command style -- if you can even call it that -- was atrocious. Absurd, contrived moral angst over the stupidest things. Tuvok should have arrested Janeway due to gross unfitness for command, & assumed control of the ship.

Enterprise -- beats me, haven't seen it.

Okay, back to the movies...

Generations -- Technically well-executed, but a crappy story with plot holes so gargantuan you could fly a Borg cube through them. The ridiculous plot sequence of events still drives me nuts every time I see it. Otherwise, it would have been a good movie.

First Contact -- much better effort by the Next Generation crew. Tension, action and a better plot. No 'Wrath of Khan' but still worth the price of admission.

Insurrection -- Quite a good movie, this ninth entry broke the old 'odd-bad, even-good' rule for Star Trek films. It was well-acted and the plot was okay. The characters were consistent with what we already knew, although they really were milking that 'Data goes crazy and disobeys Starfleet' thing, since it was in all of the last three movies. Would you let someone this unstable be a commander of a starship?

Nemesis -- don't know, haven't seen it. Honestly, I wanted to, and would have if I had been busy getting married and moving when it came out. I wish it was still in theaters locally. I'll certainly buy the DVD.

I've gone on way too long, so I'll summarize:

Voyager's bad writing killed it.


141 posted on 02/25/2003 12:50:23 PM PST by Sloth (I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!)
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To: pabianice
As I said in my post Here 02/23/2003 5:25 AM CST:

Ok, sports fans. Nemesis tanked somewhat at the cash box (It will make a bundle overseas and in Video-DVD sales) and "Enterprise" has low ratings. What can put the star back in Star Trek?

IMHO: Ashley Judd as Captain Lefler of the USS Enterprise-F with (Jerri Ryan) Seven of Nine as her Number One.

Star power plus acting chops, beauty and two tuff broads leading a new Enterprise would do it for me.

BTW, I always have thought Kirk would kick Picard's hinney-- YET Janeway would bitch slap all the Enterprise's Captains. She's in a class of her own and never sat in the Captain's chair on the Enterprise.

Remember, Janeway showed her steel by not once, not twice, but three times using her death to make things right. Review all the episodes. Janeway would eat Kirk, Picard and Worf for lunch.

Don't confuse Kate the actress (She's anti-war braindead) with her character who would have taken Saddam to the woodpile long ago.


144 posted on 02/25/2003 12:57:11 PM PST by sonofatpatcher2 (Love & a .45-- What more could you want, campers? };^)
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To: pabianice
This series was supposed to explain the events and character that were taken as given in the TOS. To that end, they so far have mixed results.

The story arc with the Andorians is good, they need more like that. The Suliban and the Temporal Cold War will need a final solution in order to explain why it was never mentioned in any other series.

Other story arcs to introduce/play up could include: 1) The Orion Syndicate, 2) the merchant fleet (there were several episodes in TOS where merchant captains -- not good enough for Starfleet -- were involved, 3) the rise of Starfleet (who were the original three races: Earth, Vulcan, and ???), 4) the pig-faced race, etc.

-PJ

151 posted on 02/25/2003 1:04:40 PM PST by Political Junkie Too
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To: pabianice
I'm really not much of a Trekkie. I liked the original series as a kid, and am a very causual watcher of everything that has come since on TV. I've seen all the movies except the last one. In short, I think I'm exactly the kind of person that Star Trek needs to appeal to to come back as a franchise. The hardcore sci-fi fans will always be there unless you really tick them off. People like me need a little more coaxing to come into the fold.

I agree with the people who have said that the new shows are over-reliant on revisiting the same old, same old. This stuff has been done ad nauseum. I read an interview with Berke Breathed (of "Bloom County" fame) and he described Star Trek as an obsolete buggy whip which has been beaten to death with buggy whips. That's a great way to put it. Rehashing old favorites might satisfy the cultists, but it's boring for the more casual fan.

I think these shows need more of a sense of the new and different. Science fiction should challenge you, open your eyes to new possibilities, and occasionally creep you out. It shouldn't be a stroll down memory lane (unless it's a time travel episode...and even then it should be a weird stroll!)

I get the sense that the people calling the shots for this franchise believe their own hype too much. They are so wrapped up in being a cultural icon that they are afraid to entertain. They're looking at these shows as a merchandising cash cow instead of drama. That's always a formula for bad art. I'm not saying that they shouldn't care about financial success, just that they should concentrate on making a good product and trust that the money will follow that.

Just my $0.02.
155 posted on 02/25/2003 1:09:56 PM PST by Media Insurgent
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To: pabianice
1. Get rid of Scott Blackula.
2. More space lesbians with big tatas (Is it too late to save Jeri Ryan from the clutches of David E. Kelley?)
3. Bring back the Farengi.
4. Bring back Roxann Biggs-Dawson.
5. Get off the friggin' ship. Even if every planet you visit looks like Vasquez Rocks (L.A. park where many outdoor shots were shot for the original series), get out and mingle with those space foreigners.
172 posted on 02/25/2003 1:32:00 PM PST by lonewacko_dot_com (http://lonewacko.com/blog)
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To: pabianice
Can Star Trek Be Saved?

Does anybody really care? It hasn't been worth watching since Tasha Yar died.

If a series goes belly up in the deep void of space, does it make any sound?

Shalom.

185 posted on 02/25/2003 1:53:08 PM PST by ArGee (I did not come through fire and death to bandy crooked words with a serving-man... - Gandalf)
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To: pabianice
As for Nemesis, Paramount Pictures vice-chairman and chief operating officer Rob Friedman attributes the movie's flameout to tough competition from other holiday films. "I think we probably got 'Lord of the Ring'-ed," he says of the blockbuster Two Towers sequel that opened the following week. "Would we have preferred to have another $20 million at the box office? Sure. But that doesn't foretell any concerns about the future of Trek."

Here is problem number one. Nemesis could have gotten an extra $40 million if they had opened at Thankgiving, like they normally do, against Harry Potter. But they don't know their audience!! Harry Potter was never a major challenge to their fan-base, but Lord of the Rings encompasses their entire fan base.

Problem number two. They never kill any characters! Want to know why Star Trek II: Wrath of Khan was the best Trek film so far? They killed Spock! Not that fans wanted Spock to die, but the whole production was in your face, "Wow! Redshirts aren't the only ones who die!" kind of movie with danger and thrills the whole way through it.

Problem number three. New situations that are easy to write your way out of stink. It's a matter of "ridiculon" particles to save the Enterprise yet again! Or Picard's sheer will power to out think the villian. Give me a break!

Anyone remember Babylon 5? Remember the episode where Sheridan dove out of the lift on the station when a bomb was about to go off? Me and my friends were on the edge of our seats during the commercial because there was no way for them to save him before he hit the ground. Then Kosh "revealed" himself, every race saw him as an angel from their point of view, and flew up and grabbed him out of the air. Incredible and unforseen! Then three episodes later Kosh is killed by the "shadows" that were just starting to take on a major role. A major character killed off in the middle of a season! Is it any wonder why B5 had such a loyal following? No one knew what was going to happen, or more importantly, how the situation would be resolved.

If Star Trek can get back to being inventive and shocking (the Borg was the best thing they ever introduced, and Spock's death was incredible), the franchise will survive. If they can't get back to great storytelling, Star Trek will increasingly become a parody of itself.

196 posted on 02/25/2003 2:06:02 PM PST by Anitius Severinus Boethius
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To: pabianice
I'd go back to the theater for a Star Trek movie...

If they brought all the crews back in an alliance to take on Q, and once they finally have him pinned down, discover he's really Wesley, so they feed him to the Gorn, and the Universe is saved.

It was that Crusher kid that drove me away from the series.

208 posted on 02/25/2003 2:36:06 PM PST by FreedomFarmer (Contains approx. 30,000 servings per farm.)
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To: pabianice
Why did Nemesis leave us wanting?

They killed Data.

209 posted on 02/25/2003 2:36:57 PM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: pabianice
If they want to expand audience, Paramount has to syndicate Enterprise beyond its UPN network. I have Time Warner Cable out of Ithaca which has no UPN station in its line up, while Time Warner Binhamton has a UPN in its line up. Sattelite(DirectTV), has no UPN as well. I would like to see Enterprise,(after seeing its pilot via a "download" via Kazaa), but can't get it. Look at the number of UPN out-lets in the US, and you realize they only serve the really large major markets, much of the country can't get UPN!
210 posted on 02/25/2003 2:41:03 PM PST by mdmathis6
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To: pabianice
I dunno. I've missed the show for a long time lately, but when I saw it, it was excellent.
211 posted on 02/25/2003 2:48:50 PM PST by Lazamataz (I have learned, over the years, to NEVER assume ANYTHING..)
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To: pabianice
Ever notice that there are no ground forces or enlisted personel on board? Where are the fighters? How come no body wears pressure suits at battle-stations? Hey, I could go on for hours... :)
214 posted on 02/25/2003 3:00:38 PM PST by Constantine XIII
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To: pabianice
Star Trek got knocks originally for being "too cerebral." But it's cerebral nature is part of what made it a winner for an ever broadening fan base. Being PC is easy. And if you want a fad show that dies in 3-4 years, just go that route.

Point two. Hollywood has no clue what makes a good movie. Directors do; but, Hollywood doesn't. For that reason, anytime anything in hollywood succeeds, they jump on it, repackage it and spin it off twelve times to scrape in all the profit they can suck off a winning idea that they beat into the ground. I'd prefer having ONE star trek show that is good to havin 12 of them that are bland, drab, passe' and utterly predictable. Sometimes it is accutely evident that The franchise knows where it is going, a cliffhanger episode of the Next Generation comes to mind: I still remember vividly and can see Riker's face - his reaction at staring into the view screen somewhat blankly, yet determined and saying "Fire". Two part or not, heller cliffhanger or not, it was good tv- engaging. It challenged you and made you think.

Tv today has enough shallow 'buffy the vampire slayer' shows that are geared to kids and have no depth. As an adult, I don't need to see teenybopper crap, I want Kirk doing a Z+ move up behind Kahn and punching a new decorative hole in Singh's @**! Give me the Columbo story's with the action of Wrath of Kahn. Do the multipart storys that engage us.

SCREW BEING PC. Anyone can be PC. It's a default position for cowards that can't hack it in a world of ideas and competition. Life is gritty. Space is Gritty. And we can be kind and realistic without pandering to Panty wastes! If you're going to give us a good script, it's gone the minute you start playing pc games. The rest is gone the minute we start dumbing down the relationships for shallow teens. Enterprise this far is fairly good. I like the cast overall, though having a hard time still with the captain, the actor is good. I've heard differing opinions, I think he should stay.

Wanna see the ratings climb? Bring wesley crusher into the past for a visit and let the captain accidently blow him out an airlock. Every true trek fan will applaud and probably watch that sequence inumerable times. Wesley was written badly and no one likes the character.

Seriously, think about it. The Borg, Squire Trelaine, Q, Khan, and a little piece of the action. Great stuff, One can't consistently produce that quality; but, the old series produced enough of it to stand on it's own for how many years in syndication.. Star trek isn't a show based on formulas. It's an alternate reality based on believeable technology and good scripts that engage the mind. It's at times Android dreams and others Columbo in a jumpsuit. It's a bit of the Warrior and a bit of the negotiator. It's the parody to some point "Ah, we've come in peace (behind the hand) shoot to kill, men." And it's knowing the difference between doing what's right and what regulations dictate. Want some good Trekking - Stir up a particularly nasty problem that is impossible to solve and solve it. How else does Worf regain his family honor - and who can forget it!

Paramount should look at what has made Star Trek Bold and strong and fire anyone who attempts to make it wimpy and pc. Period. And I don't think of City on the edge of forever as wimpy, btw. On the other hand when it becomes necessary to blow up the enterprise every other movie, It's rather obvious that the writers have lost their way.

Lord of the Rings is a phenomenon that I went to see because it will only be on the big screen once. It's an epic. And most of us fantasy scifi types blew our money on it. I have to work these things into a schedule, Missing Trek on the screen just means I have to buy the DVD that much Quicker to catch up. Star Trek can go on. It's a matter of whether paramount wants to play the hollywood game with it or keep the Roddenberry vision and be on the edge, believeable, engaging and challenging. Half the voting public is Conservative, but most of the actual public is conservative. Remember that, and it should help as well. Warf having honor means something to us.

217 posted on 02/25/2003 3:04:43 PM PST by Havoc (Excersize your iq muscles, read Coulter)
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To: pabianice
Until you get rid of that idiot Rick Berman and obtain better writers for the movies, the show will sink like a rock. I still can't get over learning that the two morons who wrote the first "Next Generation" movie did so by imitating the characters' voices as they wrote. I saw an interview with them and how they reveled in their geek-dom in doing the script like this. Unbelievable.

Berman has been a pox on this franchise. Should read Shatner's (admitedly self-serving) book on making the movies. It's amazing at how close "Wrath of Khan" and "Undiscovered Country" came to being complete wretches.

Here's a good example at how a crappy producer can impact a movie. Remember that mechanical spider in "Wild, West West" (Will Smith movie)? One of the two producers (either Jon Peters Barry Sonnenfeld, I can't remember which) had a kid see a film on spiders in school, and came home and told pop about it. After that, he did what he could to get a giant spider into a movie he was involved in. One of the possibilities was to have this occur in the next "Superman" flick. Complete idiocy. This is Berman.

221 posted on 02/25/2003 3:10:10 PM PST by GreatOne
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To: pabianice
Ok, I will weigh in on this also.

Unlike some here, I never really enjoyed the origional series very much. Cheesy sets, bad acting (can you say Kirk?) and simplistic plots doomed it for me.

That being said, I sort of enjoyed TNG, even if Picard was as wimpy as overcooked Pasta. Voyager suffered from the same problems, but I did like certain elements, 7 of 9 for instance. Still, the series suffered from terminal PCitis IMO.

How to make Enterprise better?

# 1 Since there is no prime directive, act like it. If a pushy race comes along, looking for conflict, give it to them.

#2 Give us an enemy that is diabolical, mean and just plain bad ass. One that will not be defeated with a shield adjustment or some new gizmo that solves every problem.

#3 If I have to watch one more episode where they go throught he whole "shields are down to 10 % Captain" I am gonna SCREAM. Get a new way to add suspense!

#4 Gimme more of that hot Vulcan bootie. Sure I am a sexist pig? So what? Who do you think your audience is anyway?

#5 Weapons, I want weapons. The existing Phase Cannons are OK, but only for a start. I could never imagine sending a ship on a mission such as this without being armed to the teeth.

#6 If we have technology today that can do certain things, I would expect them to be much improved in the future. For instance, Enterprise is the first starship I have yet seen that has the same capability as any of the spy sattelites today. I was amazed to see Enterprise actually turn on a Telescope to look at a planets surface to try to ID a person. We can do this now, today. I would have expected this to have only gotten better in the future.

#7 Who is the Chef? I have been waiting since the first episode to meet him/her/it. Since the Chef is mentioned in nearly every episode, we need to know who or what it is. Be BOLD.

#8 I like the idea that the Transporters are very iffy. Too often in the past, it was a crutch that bailed the writers out by simply "beaming" them out of trouble. It is nice to see them have to think of new ideas.

#9 Trip is one of your best assetts, use him. He is a Texan (well Oklahoman anyway) a straight shooter and is the "everyman" we always look for in a Star Trek show. Highlight him and his straightforward approach every time Archer goes wobbly.

And finally...

#10 Fighting, Conflict and Battles. Deep down, we all know it is a savage world out there. Space would only be worse. PLEASE no more Aids PC episodes where we get beaten over the head trying to make some PC point. Real men are NOT PC.

But then agian, what do I know? I might be completely off base here.

Cheers,

knews hound

235 posted on 02/25/2003 3:52:45 PM PST by knews_hound (Anyone else play Day of Defeat?)
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