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Finger-Pointing Over Deadly U.S. Nightclub Blaze
Reuters ^ | 2/24/03 | Svea Herbst-Bayliss

Posted on 02/24/2003 2:04:31 PM PST by Chancellor Palpatine

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To: Itzlzha
You and I, my friend, think a lot a like on this topic... I gigged up and down the east coast in the 80s, and it was exactly as you describe...
61 posted on 02/24/2003 8:32:04 PM PST by Chad Fairbanks (We've got Armadillos in our trousers. It's quite frightening really)
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To: BunnySlippers
They said out of 20 shows they did there only one did they not use fire ... HOWEVER, that was before these two brothers bought the club and supposedly banned the fire

This bares repeating.

62 posted on 02/24/2003 9:05:56 PM PST by Paul C. Jesup
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To: Chad Fairbanks; FreeTally; Chancellor Palpatine; Itzlzha
Pyrotechnic expert: More than 'a passive OK' needed

The owner of a company that has done fireworks for the Olympics, among other major events, says it doesn't matter how small the show is -- a single pyrotechnic effect triggers the need to consult with the fire marshal.

02/25/2003

BY PAUL EDWARD PARKER Journal Staff Writer

Approval from the owners of The Station to set off fireworks inside the nightclub would not have been enough for a professional pyrotechnician intent on conducting a safe show, an internationally known pyrotechnician said yesterday.

"A professional should have more than just a passive OK," said James R. Souza. The idea of conducting an indoor fireworks display without consulting the local fire marshal first is unthinkable for a professional, he said. "Absolutely 100 percent foreign to me."

Souza's company, Pyro Spectaculars, of Rialto, Calif., has presented fireworks for the Olympics and big-city Fourth of July celebrations across the country, as well as for rock groups including the Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd and Kiss.

Spokesmen for the band Great White, which took the stage amid a burst of fireworks moments before the deadly nightclub inferno Thursday night, have said the group checked with the owners of The Station and received approval before igniting the fireworks.

In a telephone interview yesterday, Souza said fireworks used indoors should be fired at least twice before the actual performance, once outdoors for the fire marshal to see, then again inside the concert venue as a rehearsal. Souza said four parties have to determine an indoor display is safe before proceeding: the pyrotechnician, the fire marshal, the building owners and the performers.

Souza said it does not matter how small the show is -- a single pyrotechnic effect triggers the need to consult with the fire marshal.

State and West Warwick fire officials have said neither The Station owners, Jeffrey and Michael Derderian, nor the band, Great White, applied for or received permission to use the fireworks last week.

Meanwhile yesterday, Souza and other experts expressed surprise that the shower of sparks shown in television footage shot inside the club could have ignited the fire.

The wall of sparks was produced by what is known as a three-gerb fan. A gerb is a small cylinder that shoots a shower of sparks. In the three-gerb fan, they are arranged so one shoots straight up and the two on the side shoot out at 45-degree angles. The gerbs are triggered simultaneously by a low-voltage, direct-current electrical source, such as a nine-volt battery, said Souza.

Atty. Gen. Patrick J. Lynch and a spokesman for the state police declined yesterday to say whether investigators have determined exactly what type of effects were used by Great White.

Souza said gerbs are not considered very dangerous. "It's probably on the safest end of the spectrum of special effects," he said.

"They have very good track records," agreed Casey C. Grant, assistant chief engineer at the National Fire Protection Association. "We here at NFPA are not aware of there being a problem."

"These types of indoor pyrotechnics have been used for at least 30 years," said Julie L. Heckman, executive director of the American Pyrotechnics Association, an industry group. "The types of materials have been proven safe for indoor use."

Heckman said industry representatives gathered at their annual convention in Las Vegas on Friday were stunned by the news out of West Warwick and found it difficult to believe gerbs had sparked the conflagration that claimed at least 97 lives. "It was just an overwhelming sense of how could this go wrong."

Souza said a gerb is made from simple components, typically ordinary black powder and very fine particles of a metal such as titanium inside a cylinder. Although the chemicals burn hot, the sparks cool quickly as they shoot away from their source. Souza said his company's lab conducted a test yesterday on an "eight by ten" gerb -- one designed to last eight seconds with a stream of sparks 10 feet high.

At the tip, the temperature measured 400 degrees Fahrenheit, he said. Eighteen inches away, the stream of sparks was 120 degrees. By contrast, the head of a match burns at 1,100 degrees, said Souza.

It was not possible to tell how the gerb tested by Souza compared with the effects used Thursday night at The Station, though Souza said it appeared to be professionally made, based on video clips. The gerbs used by Great White may have burned hotter than the one Souza tested, or they may have been set up too close to the wall, he said.

Paul Vanner, the stage manager for The Station, said in an interview yesterday that he saw the showers of sparks slamming into the soundproofing material behind the stage. As he looked down to adjust settings on a control board for the sound system, a friend tapped him on the shoulder and said the soundproofing was starting to ignite.

Vanner said the soundproofing had been installed before he started working at the club and had not been modified while he was there. He said he did not know what it was made of.

Angelique Azevedo, 31, of Pawtucket, whose boyfriend's band, Heretic's Fork, had played at The Station this month, described the material as egg-crate-shaped foam covered in silvery glitter. She said Vanner refused to let Heretic's Fork set up a candelabra on the stage for fear it would tip over.

Pyrotechnician Souza is wondering about the soundproofing -- and about whether the gerbs were the only pyrotechnics used.

"I'm more interested in what draperies were around the stage, what backdrops," said Souza. "What else was onstage? What else was around there that was so flammable?"

With reports from Liz Anderson.

LINK

63 posted on 02/25/2003 5:26:51 AM PST by Dane
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To: Dane
"Vanner said the soundproofing had been installed before he started working at the club and had not been modified while he was there. He said he did not know what it was made of."

Which begs the question, how long had this stage manager (Vanner) worked there?
64 posted on 02/25/2003 5:54:19 AM PST by birdwoman
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To: Chancellor Palpatine; Dane
Thanks for the pings and info.
65 posted on 02/25/2003 6:34:34 AM PST by FreeTally
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To: Itzlzha
The Egg crate" foam was soaked with an accellerant (Vodka is a great one). Watch the video of it, and think sparklers...if KIDS can play with sparklers, how can the foam be so susceptible to it?

Perhaps it was covered with inflammable glue? Another thread said the walls were covered with glitter; what's the likelihood that the adhesive used was flammable?

66 posted on 02/28/2003 3:57:51 PM PST by supercat (TAG--you're it!)
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To: Revolting cat!
Is there a place where we stop our thrill seeking? Sheesh!

Gerbs are pretty safe if not used around gasoline or other similarly-volatile materials. That they are not safe around such volatile materials should not be an argument for banning them in circumstances where they are safe.

67 posted on 02/28/2003 4:13:42 PM PST by supercat (TAG--you're it!)
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To: supercat
Perhaps it was covered with inflammable glue? Another thread said the walls were covered with glitter; what's the likelihood that the adhesive used was flammable?

It IS possible...but the Combustion point for that glue would have to be SUPER-Low...unless it was FRESHLY put up and out-gassing volatile and flammable compounds!

The Gerbs are at ~400 degrees at point source...at 18" the temp is ~120 degrees...which is why paper doesn't burn from Gerbs. If they had hot-loaded the Gerb, that would be different, but looking at the video...I tend to not believe that to be true.

68 posted on 02/28/2003 6:00:41 PM PST by Itzlzha
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To: Itzlzha
It IS possible...but the Combustion point for that glue would have to be SUPER-Low...unless it was FRESHLY put up and out-gassing volatile and flammable compounds!

Some glues are pretty nasty. I also wonder whether the glue might have reacted with the polyurethane to yield something even nastier. Also, I know that paint, if applied too thickly, can go for years without drying inside (since the outside of the paint forms an airtight barrier). I wonder if either the spray paint or the glue that was used might have done something similar, and if any shifting (the material was said to be mechanically 'unstable') might have exposed some pockets of VOCs. The Gerbs are at ~400 degrees at point source...at 18" the temp is ~120 degrees...which is why paper doesn't burn from Gerbs.

Anything that's glowing white hot is over 2000 degrees. Normally gerb sparks are sufficiently small that they can't heat anything of significant volume to anything near that temperature, but certain materials can be ignited by sparks, especially if--as you note--they were outgassing.

69 posted on 02/28/2003 8:59:27 PM PST by supercat (TAG--you're it!)
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