Germany joins France, Belgium in blocking NATO planning to protect Turkey

AP | 2/10/03

[dinasour]

...because they have a massive involvement in illegal weapons programs in Iraq...

And when this can be proved, I for one would want serious sanctions imposed on France and Germany. Such as including them on the State Dept's. list of terrorist sponsors.

Then they can see what it really feels like to be on the same list as Libya and Cuba

[COBOL2Java]

The economies of the EU states are strong enough in their own right to be able to afford the costs.

Who knows, maybe the Euro-weenies will feel the defense budget pinch and actually allocate some money away from their cradle-to-grave Socialist systems. It's time we stopped subsidizing Socialism in the EU.

[ZULU]

Near Flanders Fields the cowards crow,
Besides our crosses, row on row.

Isn't the President or Prime Minister of Belgium a damn Frenchman???

[carl in alaska]

"I for one would want serious sanctions imposed on France and Germany."

Amen to that brother. We can start with a $10 per bottle tax on French wine to pay for clean-up of WMD in Iraq.

[steve-b]

There's going to be a major scandal when we go into Iraq and uncover all the weapons programs.

And now they've done gone and pissed Dubya off to the point where I expect the occupation will be instructed to sift through the wreckage of Saddam's WMD machine with a fine-toothed comb, rather than merely reporting what turns up in the normal course of intelligence analysis.

We will find that France & Germany have been undermining the security of their NATO allies and the entire civilized world for 12 years. Chirac and Schroeder will fall into political disgrace and oblivion (unless, of course, their countries are now so depraved that nobody in France & Germany cares about their "allies".)

I have to point out that the US is in no position to throw stones, given what we let the Stainmaker get away with.

[Kahuna]

If Saddam attacks Turkey from the rear do you think Greece will help?

[bullpup]

According to accounts I have read this morning, the American general in Europe is working on plans to move troops permanently out of Germany to be dispersed in other countries more friendly...and closer to the Persian Gulf...and I assume that means our hardware as well...

I think that is a good Idea for Belgum as well..[We do not have troops in France or Russia I believe...]

They may not miss us..but they will miss the American dollars that flows into those countries thru the Military...and If they have a defense problem, they can add the cost of the replacements to their minus column as well..

We have been covering their butt for 60 years...If they are now capable of standing up to us...they are ready to stand up to anyone else...only next time don't call us...

The funny part is that 3 of the European countries that appose us ..are siding with their former oppressor and conqueror....so in reality Germany won the war anyway..and all we got was lost lives and lost treasure....

Rome ( whom we are accused of mimicing) had a better plan than rebuilding their adversaries..They looted them. burned them to the ground and salted the earth so they wouldn't come back...the ancient equivelent of lingering nuclear radiation...

Maybe we can send them the U.N. to replace their loss...and let them fund our past share of that as well..

I got a novel idea...Lets bring some of those troops back here and establish military bases along our borders...then those soldiers whom we pay anyway can secure our borders with "training exerciss"....

It seems like a win-win proposition ......

Unlike Rome.. we should allow no barbarians in our armies...nor none of ours in theirs...

[Lady Heron]

We just think that throwing a lot of weapons of mass destruction on Bagdad is not the best way to keep terrorists from using WMD against the US.

Some other things I fail to understand about the American priorities in the "War on Terror":

What about Osama bin Laden and al-Qaida ? I thought they were first on the hitlist ? Haven't heard about them lately. If you are looking for a tyrant with nuclear WMD, why not first attack North-Korea ?

To answer some of your questions: First North-Korea is contained,once again they are trying to blackmail us for more money(Thanks to Clinton). They should be China's problem,they are the ones who support them. We will deal with them if they try to harm their neighbors as we have promised in treaties (that is what friends do).

Second we have not stopped dealing with Al-quaida, this is what Iraq is about. It might not be outrightly stated but is Iraq providing al-quida with WMD (anthrax, ricin, training etc.),that is the reason for us going into Iraq. Iraq is not contained and is using the shadowy world of terrorism to wage war. We explained before that we would go after anybody supporting the terrorist that included goverments. If we loose former friends over this that we have protected in the past that is up to them.

[carl in alaska]

It would probably be more helpful to Turkey if Greece did not get involved in a NATO counter-attack. A gang of corrupt socialists tends to disrupt a well-planned military operation.

carl
;-)

[Catspaw]

To paraphrase an ambassador, "who cares about your sh!tty little country."

[kabar]

It's exactly this kind of talk that gives a European like me the creeps. Do the US want to establish a "fourth Reich"

The comparison of the United States to a "Fourth Reich" is indeed one of the lowest, meanest canards hurled at this country, especially coming from a European. The Third Reich cost the world well over 60 million lives. It was the United States that saved the world from this menace, which originated in Europe. America rebuilt Europe through the Marshall Plan. For almost six decades, it has been the American security umbrella that has permitted Europe to thrive in a safe, secure environment and resulted in the fall of Communism (another European gift to the world along with Nazism and Facism).

How dare you sir link the Nazis with America. We may have some faults, but on balance, America is a force for good in this world. We are not an imperial power but a liberator. Ask the people of Afganistan if they want to go back to the Taliban. The vast majority of people in Iraq will welcome the American and UK liberators. Ask your fellow Europeans in Poland, Romania, the Czech Republic, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, etc. about the American contributions to their liberation.

[steveegg]

The Axis of Weasels is complete.

And fully aligned with the Axis of Evil.

[steveegg]

And why, exactly, do you want Iraq to have weapons of mass destruction? Is it...

• You really think that the more countries, especially countries that do not value human life at all, that have WMDs, the safer the world is?
• You really believe that Saddam Hussein, despite having been in a constant state of war of his own design since assuming power in a coup, and despite breaking virtually every international agreement he has ever made, is really a peaceable person who can be trusterd?
• Iraq represents the best chance yet of removing the "stain" of Israel from the world map

I'm waiting.

[Stefan Stackhouse]

Belgo, just one question:

How many classified intelligence briefings have you attended?

I ask this because what Secretary Powell revealed last Wednesday was not ALL the evidence we have against Saddam -- it is indeed only the tip of the iceburg. More information was not provided because intelligence sources -- including the lives or brave individuals and their families - must be protected.

I don't trust our government absolutely and unquestionably, but I do trust them to have a phenomenally effective intelligence capability, and I sure as hell trust President Bush and his administration a whole lot more than I would ever trust a murderous lying thug like Saddam.

Apparently I now also have little reason left to trust YOUR government, as it does not honor its treaty commitments, and slanders my own.

[LO_IQ]

In 1991, when the US-led troops were marching toward Baghdad faster than a BWM in an autobahn, Saddam Hussein accepted the cease-fire agreement proposed by the US. For 12 years, Hussein has broken every term of the agreement, and war has never stopped in Iraq, since US and British planes routinely receive anti-aircraft fire, and several times the US and British planes have bombed Iraq since 1991.

To continue the suffering of the Iraqi people and a never-ending war is not acceptable. Hussein will either comply with the cease-fire agreement or be deposed.

When United States have vanquished a foreign government, we have never imposed a tyrannical regime on such defeated country. As a matter of fact, the US has been extra careful in respecting local traditions while trying to democratize the former enemy. We allowed the Japanese to keep their emperor, and we did not chase most of the Nazis and collaborators out of Europe either. Actually, some low-level Nazis became prominent politicians in the new democracies, such as Kurt Wahlheim in Austria.

The best thing that can happen to any country is to be defeated by the US.

Comparing the champion of freedom to a mullah is so irrational that only a Euro-weenie can come up with such a ludicrous argument.

[headsonpikes]

"That means we throw thousands of years of civilization overboard..."

LOL!!! I don't know what history books they read in Belgium, but can only conclude from your comments that they're about some other planet than Earth.

The history of civilization is the history of war.

A Belgian, above all, should certainly know that.

[Snowy]

And waffles.

Now hold on just a minute! I obviously cannot make FRENCH toast for my family on the weekends, and not Waffles are out too? Just what should we eat on Sunday mornings????

[Stefan Stackhouse]

If there is one question that two world wars should have settled, it is: Yes, Belgium IS a road, not a country.

[kabar]

Do you really believe you are on a mission from God to rid the world from "Evil" ?

No, we do not believe we are on a mission from God. However, we are committed as a nation to the democratic ideals of freedom and liberty for every human being on this globe. President Kennedy, said that, "We would bear any burden, pay any price...." to achieve that objective. What makes America different from Europe is our idealism and optimism. We are not cynics when it comes to our view of man and the future.

What about Osama bin Laden and al-Qaida ? I thought they were first on the hitlist ? Haven't heard about them lately. If you are looking for a tyrant with nuclear WMD, why not first attack North-Korea ?

The United States can walk and chew gum at the same time. The war against al-Qaida goes on in Afghanistan and elsewhere in the sometimes shadowy world of terrorism. North Korea is the case study on why it is dangerous to allow rogue states to acquire WMD, particularly nuclear weapons. We don't have a cookie cutter foreign policy. We must deal with the realities of the situation and weigh our options as we confront the dangers posed to our interests and those of our allies. Different problems require different solutions.

And finally, most Europeans get really upset when they hear George Bush mixing political speech with the language of a religious sermon. It makes him sound like Mullah Omar. Some of the worst crimes against humanity are performed in the name of God/Allah.

America is a place founded on religious tolerance. Many Europeans came to America to escape religious persecution. We have not launched Crusades, held inquisitions like in Spain(except maybe for the Salem witch trials), or prevented people from expressing their religious beliefs. The comparison with Mullah Omar and the Taliban is odious and way out of line. The separation of church and state is an accepted fact in America protected by our laws and constitution. There is no state religion or compulsory religious education like there is in some European countries.

[Nick Danger]

If you are looking for a tyrant with nuclear WMD, why not first attack North-Korea ?

The lying conceit embedded in your question is the reason that so Americans are furious with this so-called European "diplomacy."

For twelve years we have tried to avoid using "the big gun" to rid the world of Saddam Hussein's WMD. We have tried sanctions. We have tried UN resolutions. We have tried every form of diplomacy known to mankind, and we have been trying it for twelve years.

Now, thanks to al Qa'eda, we can't just worry that Saddam Hussein will use WMD's on his neighbors or on opponents in his own country. We have to worry that these poisons and diseases will show up in our own cities, as is happening now in London, Paris, etc. with the poison ricin.

So ridding Iraq of a brutal dictator with WMD's takes on new urgency. Did we use "the big gun?" No. Once again, we go to the UN. We ask for another resolution. We try inspectors. We wait months. Nothing happens. Saddam Hussein continues to lie to the inspectors. Hans Blix himself says this.

OK, finally, yes, we say it is time to use force. We have tried everything else for twelve years.

Now comes Korea, where we are just starting down the road with new diplomacy, and you give us this flip response about "Why don't you just use the 'big gun'?" This makes us think you are not serious. You wish only to taunt while you sit on your hands and do nothing about these people. It is what you have always done about such people. It is why Hitler and Mussolini and Stalin could do what they did. You always sit on your hands and do nothing.

That is not our way. We will not die from poison gas so that you can be comfortable sitting on your hands doing nothing.