Why I Hate Microsoft [A Formal look at the MS/Linux Wars]

EURONET.NL ^ | 06jan02 | frankvw

[Bush2000]

Glad you brought that up. I have demonstrated under Windows XP that Media Player contacts no less than five web servers when it comes up -- without playing any content -- and certainly any one of those servers could be collecting the unique identifier and the IP address and building a cross reference. And later, when content is played, any of these servers could be collecting an inventory of the purchased or purloined works that get played by that unique player installed at that particular IP. Can MS or RIAA/MPAA tell whether the work is purchased or purloined? MS won't let anyone look at the protocol, so only MS really knows.

You're creating a non-issue. Sure, MediaPlayer could also be sniffing for nude pictures of your grandmother. Or possibly your credit card numbers. Or your Quicken data. But the likelihood is pretty low. The privacy statement clearly spells out what it collects. If you still want to wear your tinfoil hat, go right ahead. But you're spewing dubious speculation, at best.

It's a fundamental truth that, if you're connected to the Internet, you need a firewall. There are plenty of choices for the average consumer that make it easy to decide what to allow to pass through and what to stop. If you don't trust the kernel, get an external hardware firewall. Do the filtering on the external box. You're going to have to find a new mantra: People just aren't worried by your scare tactics anymore.

[Doohickey]

Checkpoint says "yes". That particular firewall runs on Solaris.

[TechJunkYard]

You're creating a non-issue. Sure, MediaPlayer could also be sniffing for nude pictures of your grandmother. Or possibly your credit card numbers. Or your Quicken data. But the likelihood is pretty low.

I doubt MS would be interested in that information, particularly since that would indeed constitute an invasion of privacy.

The privacy statement clearly spells out what it collects.

Doesn't say all that much. Only the blurb about "collects no Personally Identifiable Information from you"... it doesn't really enumerate what it collects. And since it concerns DRM, MS isn't likely to spell that out IMHO. I've told you that I consider an IP to be personally identifiable and I've told you why; if MS doesn't think a particular datum is personally identifiable, then it can collect whatever WMP throws at it and still make that declaration.

It's a fundamental truth that, if you're connected to the Internet, you need a firewall. There are plenty of choices for the average consumer that make it easy to decide what to allow to pass through and what to stop. If you don't trust the kernel, get an external hardware firewall. Do the filtering on the external box.

Don't act naive, dude. You know as well as I do that on a NAT firewall, an outgoing packet opens up that port to receive anything coming back from the destination address/port. A properly adjusted firewall is essential, but it is not going to save you from every bad thing -- as many who have been burned by remote-access-trojans and spyware will tell you. The safest thing to do is to turn that box around and unplug the network cable, but how many people are going to do that? Especially when playing content from the Internet?

You're going to have to find a new mantra: People just aren't worried by your scare tactics anymore.

Don't tell me it can't be done.

[Bush2000]

it doesn't really enumerate what it collects.

Read this again: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/software/v8/privacy.asp. It describes all information that is collected.

Don't act naive, dude.

Translation: "I'm hopelessly paranoid and believe in unsupported conspiracy theories."

[Bush2000]

And isn't it ironic that the bleeding heart socialists are the ones pushing commercial, proprietary software and the free market libertarian, ESR, pushing OSS?

You've got that backwards. You are the one who would eliminate all intellectual property rights if you could.

[HamiltonJay]

Remember, Bill Gates is married, he doesn't control his money anymore.

Yes, but he is such a geek, even with BILLIONS of dollars had to marry a woman who worked FOR him...

[Bush2000]

You've got the wrong person. I believe in IP, just that it has to be subordinate to true property rights and civil liberties.

A load of crap. Intellectual property is explicitly described in the Constitution. It is on equal footing, with the only caveat being that it eventually expires.

You on the otherhand believe that you should have a free ride because you made something with your mind and not your hands.

Listen to Che Guevara. Whether I make something with my mind or my hands is irrelevant. What I produce is mine (not yours), and you have no right to steal it because "you feel like it" -- or "the revolution demands it."

[Bush2000]

Yes, but he is such a geek, even with BILLIONS of dollars had to marry a woman who worked FOR him...

Do you honestly think that he'd have a difficult time finding a wife if he weren't married now?

[Mannaggia l'America]

Getting an OS-free PC is a fairly new phenomena typically limited to REFURBISHED machines and you have to know where to look to find those...

Not really. We've been doing it for years. We were an SCO Unix (previously Xenix) reseller and we never had a problem getting a system without an OS.

No, you are not going to get one from Dell. But there are plenty of other places. Get a copy of Computer Shopper magazine.

[TechJunkYard]

Read this again... It describes all information that is collected.

Ah, thanks, just what I was looking for.

Windows Media Player at no time requests from you any "Personally Identifiable Information" (information that personally identifies you, such as your name, address, and phone number).

In general, WindowsMedia.com does not collect personally identifiable information, such as name, address, or telephone number.

So now we know what MS considers to be "Personally Identifiable Information". That's a start.

WindowsMedia.com automatically collects certain standard information about your computer hardware and software when you visit its site and stores this information in a log. This standard information can include: your IP address... WindowsMedia.com retains its daily logs for 12 months.

So what happens to any data "mined" out of those daily logs?

WindowsMedia.com may share aggregate information with other Microsoft websites and services, and third parties. This aggregate information will not contain any information that can personally identify you such as your name.

... or address, or phone number... note that this does not include IP addys. Oh, there's more:

Personal information collected on WindowsMedia.com websites and services may be stored and processed in the United States or any other country in which Microsoft or its affiliates, subsidiaries or agents maintain facilities, and by using WindowsMedia.com websites and services, you consent to any such transfer of information outside of your country or region.

Aha... so lets define "using the services"...

WindowsMedia.com consists of a family of websites and web based services.... The WindowsMedia.com services are utilized by Microsoft Windows software such as Microsoft Windows Media Player...

Beauty. Simply by loading Windows Media Player, you have given Microsoft & Friends your permission to use any information the client can grab any way they want. So if someday WindowsMedia.com falls over and everybody's media viewing habits shows up on a web site somewhere, with IPs and all, nobody can sue because nobody has a leg to stand on since everybody implicitly said it was OK for MS to collect and store all of that data.

And the NBMers just sit and wonder why nobody trusts Microsoft.

Look, before you go ballistic on me, understand that I'm NOT saying that this is happening. I'm only saying that it's POSSIBLE. There is a RISK. The technology is there. The legal CYA disclaimers are there. Think about it.

And be careful out there.

Translation: "I'm hopelessly paranoid and believe in unsupported conspiracy theories."

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

[jimt]

Your comments about Linux app crashes are well taken.

After multiple installs with five different distributions, I came to the conclusion that Linux is not ready for prime time, at least on my hardware. Handling a 1024 X 768 16 bit display seems to be rocket science. And all the ballyhoo about how it's lean and mean, and usable on older hardware is utter hogwash. Performance was glacial in comparison to Windoze 95 and NT, and DOS made it look frozen in time.

While I'm not a Microsoft cheerleader, Linux just isn't a viable alternative yet.

[Bush2000]

Clearly Article I, Section 8, Clause 8 does not state that it is property. It says that the Congress shall only have the power to give them exclusive rights to their works for a limited period of time. Property rights protection is a role of the states, not US Government.

You're playing semantical word games. That's pure sophistry. The fact is that other people are precluded from implementing your "writings and discoveries". Why? Because it's your intellectual property.

[Bush2000]

So what happens to any data "mined" out of those daily logs?

The data is no more pernicious or dangerous than data mined from Web server clicks.

... note that this does not include IP addys. Oh, there's more:

The only thing that this is useful for is delivering ads to you via Media Player. They can't send you email or contact you in any other way.

Beauty. Simply by loading Windows Media Player, you have given Microsoft & Friends your permission to use any information the client can grab any way they want.

What a load of crap. The data that they gather is limited to IP address and a guid. It isn't useful for any purpose.

So if someday WindowsMedia.com falls over and everybody's media viewing habits shows up on a web site somewhere, with IPs and all, nobody can sue because nobody has a leg to stand on since everybody implicitly said it was OK for MS to collect and store all of that data.

You might as well complain about Amazon or Ebay or any other site falling over. It's no different. Why the distinction?

And the NBMers just sit and wonder why nobody trusts Microsoft.

Nobody wonders. It's obvious that you're unable to differentiate between fantasy and reality.

Look, before you go ballistic on me, understand that I'm NOT saying that this is happening. I'm only saying that it's POSSIBLE. There is a RISK. The technology is there. The legal CYA disclaimers are there. Think about it.

Considering the information -- an IP address and a guid -- I think most people would laugh at your paranoia. They give away far more information while browsing around the Web clicking on various things than Media Player will ever gather.

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

Seek treatment. You might need an anti-anxiety medication. The signs are all there.

[TechJunkYard]

I think most people would laugh at your paranoia.

Oh, right, you're incapable of rational thought. Okay, fine. I get paid to analyze possibilities and to plan for them. It's a simple concept known as "better safe than sorry".

Seek treatment. You might need an anti-anxiety medication. The signs are all there.

Practicing psychiatry without a license again? tsk-tsk.

73; Out.