Thinking About Jonathan Pollard

Artuz Sheva ^ | 08 December 2002 | Larry Domnitch

[dennisw]

http://www.jonathanpollard.org/mustread.htm

[dennisw]

http://www.jonathanpollard.org/1994/060094.htm

 

I am convinced that a full, fair and open review of the facts will lead to the conclusion that the information given to Israel was largely tactical and regional, rather than strategic and global. It related primarily to Iraq’s plans for chemical and gas warfare and to Syrian inspired terrorism directed against civilians. It has no current intelligence value, and there is no reason to keep it classified. 

What we are seeing here is yet another abuse of the classification system by the Pentagon to serve political, rather than national security, interests. The entire classification system reeks of arbitrariness. Insiders leak classified information with impunity. I was recently told by a former intelligence official that he had been shown classified information in order to give him ammunition to oppose Pollard’s release. 

The government continues to play fast and loose with the facts. In another recent leak, intelligence officials assert that information given to Israel may have inadvertently found its way to the Soviet Union. Yet prosecutor DiGenova asserted during a public debate that he had no information to confirm that rank speculation. 

In a democracy, it is unfair for the government to argue against the rights of a citizen by relying on classified information without giving that citizen the right to defend himself against its charges. Accordingly, the only appropriate course for the government to follow now is that suggested by DiGenova: all the material upon which the government is relying in its effort to keep Pollard in jail should now be declassified so the public can determine for itself the actual extent of any damage done by Pollard.

[bribriagain]

"Accordingly, the only appropriate course for the government to follow now is that suggested by DiGenova: all the material upon which the government is relying in its effort to keep Pollard in jail should now be declassified so the public can determine for itself the actual extent of any damage done by Pollard. "

Seems reasonable to me.

[dennisw]

Can I get a witness? Yes. You. Thanks!

[Illbay]

I don't really care about your supposed motives for posting, any more than I care about your facility with HTML.

I'm addressing the COMMENTS you're making, trying to defend Pollard, trying to blend in with the outrageous chorus of his defenders whose argument boils down to "he didn't really do anything that bad," trusting to the "memory hole" to help your case.

It's despicable, IMO, for anyone who CLAIMS to be a supporter of our "Free Republic" to play to these lies.

[SJackson]

Funny, you quote Joe DeGenova, the prosecutor, I quote Ted Olson, Pollards attorney prior to entering the administration, who seem to agree.

To counter them, Illbay quotes Andrew I. Killgore just about the only person I can think of whom the State Department has accused of being antisemitic.

[Illbay]

"Seems reasonable" to you to release classified information?

How convenient for you Israel-sycophants.

You can allege a "cover up" and call for declassification of classified data, KNOWING that it won't happen because of national security interests, and then arch your eyebrows, and say you smell an anti-semitic rat.

You people disgust me, all the more for the fact that you sit here fat dumb and happy, out of the fray, you and yours not threatened by Palestinian terrorism, and state calmly that you'll even betray your own COUNTRY for Israel.

I say that if you were REALLY sincere about "helping Israel," you'd get your smarmy *sses out of the U.S., where you're not needed, and GO to Israel and join the IDF. Then at least, your efforts wouldn't be so two-faced.

[Illbay]

"Seems reasonable" to you to release classified information?

How convenient for you Israel-sycophants.

You can allege a "cover up" and call for declassification of classified data, KNOWING that it won't happen because of national security interests, and then arch your eyebrows, and say you smell an anti-semitic rat.

You people disgust me, all the more for the fact that you sit here fat dumb and happy, out of the fray, you and yours not threatened by Palestinian terrorism, and state calmly that you'll even betray your own COUNTRY for Israel.

I say that if you were REALLY sincere about "helping Israel," you'd get your smarmy *sses out of the U.S., where you're not needed, and GO to Israel and join the IDF. Then at least, your efforts wouldn't be so two-faced.

[Illbay]

"Seems reasonable" to you to release classified information?

How convenient for you Israel-sycophants.

You can allege a "cover up" and call for declassification of classified data, KNOWING that it won't happen because of national security interests, and then arch your eyebrows, and say you smell an anti-semitic rat.

You people disgust me, all the more for the fact that you sit here fat dumb and happy, out of the fray, you and yours not threatened by Palestinian terrorism, and state calmly that you'll even betray your own COUNTRY for Israel.

I say that if you were REALLY sincere about "helping Israel," you'd get your smarmy *sses out of the U.S., where you're not needed, and GO to Israel and join the IDF. Then at least, your efforts wouldn't be so two-faced.

[Illbay]

It continues to amaze me that people like you actually believe that charges of "anti-Semitism"--or racism of any stripe--still have any bite, as overused as they've been.

"The race card" just doesn't work very well anymore, particularly when Occam's razor might indicate the simpler explanation that there are actually people in this country who love THIS COUNTRY and not some other, and wish death and misery on ALL her enemies, no matter from whence they come. "Foreign or domestic," get it?

Pollard wasn't an "Israeli spy," he was a ****ing traitor.

Is that easy enough for you to understand, or do we need three pages of clever HTML before you'll pay attention?

[Illbay]

It continues to amaze me that people like you actually believe that charges of "anti-Semitism"--or racism of any stripe--still have any bite, as overused as they've been.

"The race card" just doesn't work very well anymore, particularly when Occam's razor might indicate the simpler explanation that there are actually people in this country who love THIS COUNTRY and not some other, and wish death and misery on ALL her enemies, no matter from whence they come. "Foreign or domestic," get it?

Pollard wasn't an "Israeli spy," he was a ****ing traitor.

Is that easy enough for you to understand, or do we need three pages of clever HTML before you'll pay attention?

[dennisw]

Take your Ritalin. Or are you going to say you spit on me too? As you did in a previous post? I am in a search for truth about Pollard while your search is for words of invective.

People better than you such as Ted Olsen and Alan Dershowitz want to know more. The material is more than old enough to be declassified. To see what Pollard really did. This is what you fear. How come?

[dennisw]

Your manic remarks about Israel verge on anti Semitism. HAPPY NOW?

[SJackson]

I don't really care about your supposed motives for posting, any more than I care about your facility with HTML…I'm addressing the COMMENTS you're making, trying to defend Pollard, trying to blend in with the outrageous chorus of his defenders whose argument boils down to "he didn't really do anything that bad," trusting to the "memory hole" to help your case…It's despicable, IMO, for anyone who CLAIMS to be a supporter of our "Free Republic" to play to these lies. Frankly, I don’t much care about you. I referred to my reason for posting fool, since you commented on it to me I wish you fools would just shut yer yaps about Pollard. It’s called an answer. I guess it was a mistake to address your comments. And you continue to prove yourself a fool, as you accuse others. DID YOU READ MY POSTS? IF YOU DID WHY CAN’T YOU PROVIDE ONE REFERENCE TO BACK UP YOUR BIGOTED CONTENTIONS? As to my quoting Ted Olson, write the White House, tell GWB to fire him. Don’t know what to do about Joe DeGenova, I think he sometimes works for the Republican Party in Virginia, you could complain to them. I’ll note a condensed version of my opinion for a third time, on the outside chance you can read and intelligently respond. Also, please note where I said anything like, he didn't really do anything that bad . *Life in jail for Pollard works fine for me, as would have been a more severe sentence if imposed at the time. *His sentence is disproportionate when compared to other similar cases of espionage. There’s no refuting that, but I don’t lose much sleep over it. And if GWB released him, I wouldn’t lose much sleep either. *The real problem, which of course you nor the Pollard threads ever address, is the lenient sentencing of others convicted of espionage, which continues up to this day. You can toddle on over to the Washington Report now.

[Mr. K]

The game is like this- we have to play hardball with pollard or every spy in the world will think we are easy targets.

Isrealis have to try their hardest to get them out, or no one will be willing to risk spying.

Pollard should and will rot until we have someone very important we want to trade him for...

[Illbay]

I am in a search for truth about Pollard ...

In a pig's eye. You're in search of that "memory hole."

[Illbay]

IF YOU DID WHY CAN’T YOU PROVIDE ONE REFERENCE TO BACK UP YOUR BIGOTED CONTENTIONS?

Like I said: The more you try to use the "race card," the more your argument looks like a FOOL'S errand.

[SJackson]

The game is like this- we have to play hardball with pollard or every spy in the world will think we are easy targets...Isrealis have to try their hardest to get them out, or no one will be willing to risk spying... Pollard should and will rot until we have someone very important we want to trade him for...

I would agree.

[SJackson]

IF YOU DID WHY CAN’T YOU PROVIDE ONE REFERENCE TO BACK UP YOUR BIGOTED CONTENTIONS? Like I said: The more you try to use the "race card," the more your argument looks like a FOOL'S errand. There you go again, Illbay, another unsubstantiated accusation. To add to the list. When did I use the “race card”? I never said you don’t like white people. You are a Bigot, a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices You’ve made false accusation after false accusation on this thread, and refuse to back up a single one, you’re obstinately and intolerantly devoted to your own opinion, bigoted. Bye

[dennisw]

Bull! I want the truth while you want to bury Pollard without a better disclosure of the facts. What he actually took and conveyed to Israel. Sorry if you're pissed off that the Jewish state is an ally of ours. Really gets you steamed, eh? Far better to let the Jihadists do their number of 'em, right?