"The Coming Islamic Implosion"

NRO ^ | 12/4/02 | David Frum

[BOBTHENAILER]

Think if the price was life or death for our faith, like the situation faced by millions of third-world Christians today. They put us to shame.

Very well said, EV.

[Cicero]

Interesting idea. I've always wondered why God permitted Islam to expand so hugely for so long a time, when other heresies have inevitably shriveled and died into relative impotence. God lets people choose evil courses, but they don't normally prosper over the long term. Hillair Belloc has written on Islam's success, I believe.

If there's a providential purpose in the immense growth of Islam, maybe it is some sort of trial or test.

Bump for later.

[aristeides]

I guess fascism and Nazism were, in a similar way, the implosion of European and German nationalism. However, had they won WWII, it would have been quite some time before they went away, despite their deficiencies as ideologies.

Similarly, if the Islamofascists win this war, that fact will prove to them that Allah really does exist and is supporting their cause.

[kulot]

Generally, true religions flourish if:

1) They are based on a true messenger and
2) The followers hold to the true spirit of the teachings of the messenger.

Religions decay after:

1) The message, while still spiritually true, is practically less relevant and
2) The followers stop understanding the original spirit.

That's why God sends messengers every now and then, like Jesus and Muhammad, among others and the followers bring out a major religion.

From what this post says, both religions have shown signs of decay. This is in no way a put-down of any true believer!

[Tom D.]

For an excellet article on the up and coming face of World wide Christianity see:

http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2002/10/jenkins.htm

This article offers some insight into what is happening in the Christian World, not just the Christian West. I find a lot be be encouraged about here.

[intolerancewillNOTbetolerated]

"That's why God sends messengers every now and then, like Jesus and Muhammad, among others and the followers bring out a major religion"

I assume you are Muslim, as this explanation fits more closely with the Muslim perspective that the Christian? Christians believe that Christ was far more than a "messenger" taking his turn teaching about God. He was the One all the Old Testament prophets spoke of...God in flesh, the beginning and the end and the ONLY path to eternal life. Muslims believe Christ was a fine prophet in his own right, but not on a par with Muhammad, the last and greatest prophet.

[intolerancewillNOTbetolerated]

"I guess fascism and Nazism were, in a similar way, the implosion of European and German nationalism. However, had they won WWII, it would have been quite some time before they went away, despite their deficiencies as ideologies. Similarly, if the Islamofascists win this war, that fact will prove to them that Allah really does exist and is supporting their cause.

Well put...although the author may have a valid point, the dying fire of Islam could be centuries burning out...and decimate civilization as we have known it in the process.

[intolerancewillNOTbetolerated]

That IS and excellent article. Thanks much. You're a good human.

[kever]

Go read 'the Gulag Archipelago', and then come back and we'll talk about your misunderstanding of the way the world really works.

I guess I must misunderstand your world then.......

I was referring to believing in yourself & doing what is morally & ethically right based on what it means to be human. If you can't do that on your own then I guess you must really need God then.

[EternalVigilance]

I was referring to believing in yourself & doing what is morally & ethically right based on what it means to be human. If you can't do that on your own then I guess you must really need God then.

Without God, men ARE nothing but animals.

The only thing worse than being godless is to worship a false god.

[EternalVigilance]

I was referring to believing in yourself & doing what is morally & ethically right based on what it means to be human. If you can't do that on your own then I guess you must really need God then.

Without God, men ARE nothing but animals.

The only thing worse than being godless is to worship a false god.

[Heuristic Hiker]

I agree. I follow his link to the whole David Warren article. It was long (about 25 pages), but I read it this weekend and found it a good read. Another point Warren makes is:

"To exaggerate: the strength of Islam, through much of its history, was that it stayed in the background. The religion wasn't oppressive because it did not have an independent, Church-like vanguard. The imams were appointed by the State. The theology itself, which in its pure monotheism is far simpler to grasp than the Christian, was by the same token too one-dimensional, frankly too boring, to engage the finest minds for long. The great philosophers of Islam tend frequently to ignore all that, and are far more interested in "scientific" cosmology and the great, practical political questions."

I find myself agreeing with this logic and also finding it ironic that the "Golden Age" of the Muslim/Arab world was when they were most irreligious...and that the more religious they get is that of a moth flying closer and closer to the flame.