Is it possible to create a political socioeconomic system in which nobody has to work?

Fantasy vanity | November 26, 2002 | Momaw Nadon

[Age of Reason]

Thoreau.

[Age of Reason]

Is it possible to create a political socioeconomic system in which nobody has to work?

Too many people now and too few resources just to reach out and take what is needed.

So we are doomed to living by work instead of living by play.

[marron]

I'm with you, whitewolf. The basis of economics is creation. And, the purpose of life itself is creation. There is no wealth, and there is no happiness, if you forget that basic law of the universe.

If you are not happy in your work, you need to find other work. I have to say, when you are engaged in a creative enterprise, it is hard to call it work, in any negative sense of the word. If work for you is dry, stale, monotony, you need to find some courage and change your situation. Or come to a deeper understanding of what it is you are doing.

You were put on this earth to build, and to create. This is your moment on earth. Let it get away from you, and it will be as if you never lived. Delegate your moment to another, and you will have made a fools bargain. He lives. You merely breathe.

[Angel]

I agree with your comment that man is made to work. I know if I have a day where I don't accomplish something of value, I don't feel fullfilled. I am a "stay at home mom" where 2 of my kids are in college and only 1 left at home, but I still work everyday - cleaning, gardening, etc. I can remember only 1 day (of 21 years without an outside job) where I decided to spend the day reading. I felt so unsettled at the end of the day, I never did it again. I can't imagine a whole life of leisure.

[2sheep]

No.  It is part of the curse on Adam.  The not working part is called Sodom. 

Eze 16:49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.

2Th 3:10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

Many people have been unhappy in their jobs or present circumstances.  You aren't a slave.  Go get a different job. 

[SAJ]

Nope. Wonderful dream, certainly, but quite impossible.

For you (or anyone) to expend wealth, someone must have previously created it, else there is no wealth.

If the creation of wealth were a mechanistic process, some huge number of people would have employed such a process long since. They have not, therefore, such a process does not exist.

As regards 'robots', or some other flavour of automaton, providing the effort to let you lie in the hammock forever, there are numerous formal demonstrations of the impossibility of this notion. Purely regarding automatons, Turing theory demonstrates this quite elegantly. From a more traditional humanistic logical standpoint, Kleene, and before him Godel (not to mention Fitch and Thomason, and for that matter Ruth Barkan-Marcus) have all generated insoluble paradoxes, or, if you prefer reductio ad absurdem arguments against the postulate of the availability of 'infinite leisure'.

For my part, I would simply observe that SOMEONE must plant and harvest the corn, and feed the cattle (scr*w you, you silly vegetarians), and deliver same to market, and butcher them, and pack the product, and deliver product to stores.

Planning to raise all your own food, are you? Takes a bit of work...cuts into to your notion of 'infinite leisure'.

[brat]

What if we created intelligent robots to do our work for us, while we all relax and enjoy life?

The business leaders would be the first to use them...and you'll be without a job and means of support. No relaxing, no ease, no joy. Big bills, no cash.

[ThinkDifferent]

We could take the $850B difference and allocate it to each person in the US now. That would be $32k per person per year for 265 million people including children.

Off by a decimal place, it would be $3200/person/year.

[Blood of Patriots and Tyrants]

"My challenge to all at Free Republic is to devise a Constitution of a political socioeconomic system in which nobody has to work but in which we are all wealthy."

"The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Frederic Bastiat

[Goetz_von_Berlichingen]

"As a far right conservative im against all union activity"

At the risk of turning this from a vanity post into a discussion about politics . . .

If a union is a voluntary association, then there is no reason to be against it. I am opposed to anti-monopoly legislation as well. Businesses should be permitted to co-operate in order to create efficiencies of network, of scale, and of scope. Malefactors should be punished by market mechanisms, not by politicians, who are, just coincidentally, accepting protection money from industrial competitors. See U.S. vs. Microsoft.

And if businesses should be allowed to act collectively, then so should workers. And, again, if they are not prudent, they will end up being punished by market mechanisms. Look at the UAW as an example of what happens when you kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.

All power to the producers!

[RWG]

Robot mechanics.

[Goetz_von_Berlichingen]

" . . . more time to pursue idle rich type hobbies models, paintballing, wargames . . ."

But that's not idle at all. Idle is sitting around the pool drinking Bloody Marys. The trick is to find a way of making the things you like to do profitable, rather than being compelled to draw revenue from activities you would not voluntarily pursue.

And, now about those wargames . . .
Scale? period? rules?

[Momaw Nadon]

The business leaders would be the first to use them...and you'll be without a job and means of support. No relaxing, no ease, no joy. Big bills, no cash.

Can you think of a way to avoid such a situation?

I think that individuals owning worker robots would be a solution.

[Momaw Nadon]

"The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Frederic Bastiat

What if we all lived at the expense of robotic workers?

[Momaw Nadon]

[ChadGore]

Is it possible to create a political socioeconomic system in which nobody has to work?

Unions

[Tijeras_Slim]

RUR

[Momaw Nadon]

Planning to raise all your own food, are you? Takes a bit of work...cuts into to your notion of 'infinite leisure'.

No, robotic workers will raise my food.

[Momaw Nadon]

This link may be of interest:

http://www.kurzweilai.net

Ray Kurzweil is a leading theorist in the fields of robotics and artificial intelligence.

[steve-b]

Will you read a book written by robots?

Judging from sales of Algore's book the answer would seem to be "no".