Posted on 11/26/2002 11:43:30 AM PST by mrustow
This is true. The WoD is also responsible for such evils as psoriasis, bad winter tides, Firestone Wilderness AT tires, Gilligan Island reruns, and that missed putt on the 17th.
When the WoD is ended, all evil and injistice will end. There will be harmony and understanding, sympathy and trust abounding, no more falsehoods or derisions, golden living dreams of visions, mystic crystal revelation, and the mind's true liberation.
I know. I read about it in a book of prohecies by Donovan.
The West has a number of legal traditions, rooted in: Judaism, ancient Athens, Roman Law, Christianity (papal decrees, philosopher-theologians, etc.), English Common law, the Code Napoleon, etc. (P.S. The Bible contains a lot more rules than just the Big Ten.)
Deception to obtain confessions is a relative novelty, and is mostly needed due to the overload caused by the Drug War. To me, this is a minor point, but I think Free Tally has a point: it is reasonable for reasonable people to have a problem with deception in interrogations in criminal cases. It does not rest on the foundations of our laws.
I'm glad you brought up the WOD, which to me is a major issue. Many probelms involving the police overstepping the laws stem directly from the WOD. The racial profiling hoax also derives whatever puny justifcation it has, from the WOD. The problem with even that puny, occasional legitimate point, is that black leaders -- the same folks who demand that cops kiss the behinds of black gangsters -- are the biggest supporters of the WOD.
However, Free Tally does NOT have a point. (I was hoping not to have to discuss FT again.) He first tried a veiled Biblical argument against using deception in police interrogations. Later, he admitted that he had just used the Biblical reference to get over, explaining that such arguments tend to be accepted at FR. Thus, FT used deception to try and win an argument against using deception. He then told us that his justification of the moment is the "common law." Whatever. Check back in 15 for his next justification.
Back at #24, Poobah said it simpler, and since he invoked neither "the Bible" nor the "common law," there's no danger of later finding out that he'd employed deception:
If you expect the citizenry to turn square corners in their dealings with the government, then the government must turn square corners in its dealings with its citizenry.
What happened to "innocent-until-proven-guilty"? Tell us huh? Tell us why such manipulative techniques as can (and have) caused the innocent to "confess" should not be exposed on video for the judge and jury and all the world to see? Sunshine is the best disinfectant.
Yes, it contains both ritual commandments and ethical commandments. Our system of government was founded on the latter. But even if it weren't, it remains true that no country can expect the blessings of God (who is not constrained by something as puny as a constitution) which country conducts itself as Satan. Lying to investigatees is the least of it; think about porn and drug stings where people who might otherwise not have been involved in any wrongdoing are lured by the very government which is supposed to be protecting them. This is vintage Satan.
BTW, FR is experiencing another one of its periodic "episodes." "My comments" says that I have posts, but none of the recent ones show up, and I only found the ones here when I checked up, after seeing that the last comment I made was "82 out of 85."
What happened to "innocent-until-proven-guilty"? Tell us huh?
Alright, alright! Mea culpa! Mea culpa!
I still think that we are talking about the guilty here, because I don't see someone confessing to a crime he didn't commit, but I realize that that position is unacceptable within our legal system.
Tell us why such manipulative techniques as can (and have) caused the innocent to "confess" should not be exposed on video for the judge and jury and all the world to see? Sunshine is the best disinfectant.
As I said, I don't believe that such techniques have caused the guilty to confess. The reporters who are claiming that innocent people routinely confess to crimes they didn't commit, seek to undermine ALL confessions.
Any idea why? I mean like the ACLU was not to come onto the scene for years so they are free from blame. Surely the founding fathers must have been smoking weed.
When black juries decide they will refuse to convict BLACK defendents just because they are BLACK and are accused of harming whites, that's not Jury Nullification. There is another term that is used when a group explicitly sanctions the commission of violence by its members against members of another group -- it's usually called War.
While I certainly do not condone the actions of a jury refusing to convict due to racial reasons(or any other thing to do with the person of the defendant), I am very concerned anytime anyone discusses placing controls on the jury decision.
I realize that what is described here as "a black jury refusing to convict a black defendant" and this is certainly wrong and technically, not really Jury Nullification per se. However, Jury Nullification has been under continual attack for so long that we need to be very cautious allowing this type of example to open the door for those who would remove Jury Nullification from our legal system. This tactic is not unlike those who take a sad story about a young child accidentally killing another child with a handgun and using that story to further their own anti-gun agenda.
On the day that we lose the rights of a jury to refuse enforcement of bad laws, we will have lost forever the "fourth and final check & balance" on our government.
Just be careful what you let slip by. I'm only trying to defend the rights to Jury Nullification.
Blacks today suffer far more crime from other blacks, than they do from whites. Unless there is some reason for them to believe racism is behind the charges, black jurors have no reason to be unusually lenient on black defendants.
On that much, we can agree.
Dangerous ground, that. Folks might infer the potential existence of Conscience.
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