CAVUTO REPORTS THAT BUSH CONSIDERING SCRAPPING THE IRS CODE!!!

Fox News Channel | November 6, 2002 | n/a

[ancient_geezer]

I would have to raise my prices to be able to aford what I'm used to buying with a 30% NRST

How is it would you find it necessary to raise prices, when business is not taxed for that which is necessary to the conduct of their business under the NRST.

Terrell, the following linked BLS Data shows shows some interesting results by gross income classes.

Income		less than $5,000	5,000 to 9,999	10,000 to 14,999	15,000 to 19,999	20,000 to 29,999	30,000 to 39,999	40,000 to 49,999	50,000 to 59,999	greater than 60,000
Expenditure		17,946	15,703	21,199	24,331	29,852	35,609	42,323	49,245	75,964
Gross Income		1,942	7,192	12,245	17,070	23,666	32,720	41,498	54,432	102,578

Care to Tell us just which Income bracket you say you are in that allows you to spend without substantive income/payroll taxation?

Living off your capital perhaps, or is it undeclared earnings? Some I am sure are interested in how you manage to pay a lower tax rate than the NRST would provide:

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a388d0748789d.htm

[ancient_geezer]

What costs did this dude think he found that could possibly increase each manufacture product item 20%-30%? Did you check his methods and numbers, or did you take his word for it?

Why don't you check his numbers and ask Joprgenson for youself.

These PDFs contain the results and description of methodology:

The Effects of Fundamental Tax Reform and the Feasability of Dynamic Revenue Estimation, in Joint Committee on Taxation, Congress of the United States, The Modeling Project and 1997 Tax Symposium Papers, Washington, U.S. Government Printing Office, November 20, 1997 (with P.J. Wilcoxen), pp. 130-151.

The Economic Impact of Fundamental Tax Reform, in M. Boskin (ed.), Frontiers of Tax Reform, Stanford, Hoover Institution, 1996, pp. 181-196; reprinted in Joint Economic Committee, Congress of the United States, Roundtable Discussion on Tax Reform and Economic Growth, One Hundred Fourth Congress, First Session, 1996, pp 98-112.

Lifting the Burden: Tax Reform and US Economic Growth; Dale Jorgensen, Harvard University; Office of Tax Analysis U.S. Department of Treasury, Aug 2 2002

[Bigun]

However, I would have to raise my prices to be able to aford what I'm used to buying with a 30% NRST.

Absolute, positive proof that you haven't the FAINTEST clue what's in H.R.2525 William...but we KNEW that didn't we?

[HighWheeler]

"In other news I'm predicting major layoffs at HR Block."

The accountants who won't do Income Taxes anymore will be hired by me to mow my lawn, wash my cars, clean the house, cook my meals, etc, etc, etc.

In other words, they could go from doing useless work to becoming highly productive members of society.

[Bigun]

...ask the convience store clerk, the owner of a fastfood restaurant, a bank teller, a mechanic or any small businessman yourself.

Oh I have William! Many hundreds of them in fact and when they understand it they are ALL for it!

[Bigun]

I get the picture that there are a lot or morons in America...

Yep! Everyone's a moron sept ole William Terrell HE'S brilliant now isn't he?

Not to smart though else he would know, had he actually studied the bill as he CLAIMS to have done, that business to business sales are NOT taxed and retailers actually get PAID for collecting the tax!

[Bigun]

Uh, Bigun, perhaps they read more. But don't take my word for it, ask the convience store clerk, the owner of a fastfood restaurant, a bank teller, a mechanic or any small businessman yourself.

Uh William Associated General Contractors of America (AGC) endorsed the FairTax!

Pay particular attention to this part when you read that William:

The Associated General Contractors of America is the largest and oldest national construction trade association, founded in 1918. AGC represents more than 33,000 firms, including 7,500 of America’s leading general contractors, and 12,000 specialty-contracting firms. Over 14,000 service providers and suppliers are also associated with AGC, through a nationwide network of chapters.

[Bigun]

How about these folks William? Are they just a bunch of MORONS as well?Physicians Who Care Endorses the FairTax

[ancient_geezer]

Hi there Bigun, see you've got a handle on ole Terrell.

Still clipp'n limbs off'n them thar Texas golf course trees?

[Bigun]

How about these folks William? Are they just a bunch of MORONS as well?Physicians Who Care Endorses the FairTax

[SwankyC]

If Bush Gets this done, I'll put him on Rushmore with my bare hands.

[Bigun]

...see you've got a handle on ole Terrell.

Figured ole William out LONG time ago! Gole dang GENIUS that he is...NOT!!!

Still clipp'n limbs off'n them thar Texas golf course trees?

LOL! Every chance I get!!!

[Bigun]

BTW; Howz thangs up in the HIGH country? Mrs Geezer still take you fishin every once in a while?

[Zon]

In response to your 746 and 747:

It is dually noted that injected by you in your post 747 is the first time the issue of whether the poor would be exempt from paying the NRST under HR2525 has been raised in our back-and-forth posts. Who are you trying to "fool"?

You weren't fooled? Really? If there is a provision in HR2525 that exempts the poor from paying the NRST, it would be a new addition. Would you care to post it, in case Principled fails to? You did see me ask him, didn't you? You didn't mention it.

There's no provision to exempt the poor -- they simply get a "rebate" (prebate) check each month that covers the nrst they pay. It's obvious you're putting forth another straw man argument. Else wise, you thought there was a provision in HR2525 that exempts the poor from paying the NRST in which case you've again demonstrated your ignorance. IMO, it's your intent to deceive, not mere ignorance.

Response to post 746:

We had a fun time in those days. You're a Johnny-come-lately.746

Wow, aren't you special -- NOT! You've been on this forum a whole four months longer than my four years here. Not to mention I've read many of the tax threads.

Have you even read HR2525, much less studied it?746

Yes. And I comprehend it better than you as noted below.

 

To: Principled; William Terrell

WT, netiquette flag.

William Terrell: When I explained the structure of the NRST, all by one were horrified. 721

That is likely due in large part to your ignorance of the bill and your love of the income tax.

He can't even get it right on this forum where there's a ton of supporting information so as to help him not get it wrong on this thread. He is either ignorant of important points or he chose to deceive the reader.  Knowing that to include a key point would refute one of his deceptions. You identified that in your last response as shown below:

William Terrell: ...have larger than average incomes, exactly the ones that can tolerate a sales tax and still be able to buy most of what they have in the past 717

Principled: Oops, Will. You forgot that poor folks have negative or zero tax rates under nrst. Who you tryin' to fool? 719

He didn't fool me. I was on to him from the get go. Thus the reason for my first post to him: "To all readers, a simple response is all that is needed. Read the Americans for Fair Tax at fairtax.org."

I hazard to guess his vested interest in the present tax system -- tax accountant? tax lawyer? bureaucrat? sells tax avoidance information? He claims to have talked to a lot of people about the NRST and "all by [sic] one were horrified". How many of them have yet to understand that the reason they were likely horrified was not because of the NRST but rather, because of William Terrell's ignorance or intent to deceive them. Oh well, it's not my or your credibility on the line.

727 posted on 11/08/2002 1:02 PM EST by Zon

[Zon]

dually = duly

[Zon]

Do you not understand that social control is a hell of a lot easier when the grip is on the consumption side. Have you ever heard of a Hydrolic Empire? There's some references to it on the web. It'll hold your attention.

Such is your hyperbole. As it is now it's a no choice "gun to the head" pay the income tax and hidden taxes and fees built into products and services. That's government control over citizens by threat of force on the production side and certainly is not freedom. Whereas with the NRST "if you don't want to pay the tax then don't buy the item." That's free choice. ...Keeping in mind that when you buy necessities the tax you pay on those purchases is covered by the "prebate" (rebate) check the government sends you each month.

That's all you get, for as I've already said to you a few times on this thread: "I have no need or desire to educate "heathens". That you don't want to educate yourself fine -- so be it." 678

[ancient_geezer]

Mrs Geezer still take you fishin every once in a while?

Dang'd right she is, she jess ties me over the front hood of the ole pickup, nestled in wid the elks antlers, and drags me on up to the lake.

I wish she would slow down alittle bit though, it gett'n hard to keep up with her. I takes me longer to clean the fish than she can ketch em.

Got a new fish'n dawg, too. Mini schnowzer. I'm training her as a Muski lure. Having a hard timed getting it across to her that we can only keep the bigger ones, she keeps grabb'n the lil 31"rs and we haf'ta throw em back. Ketch & Release yah know.

She wiggles around out in the lake there, teases them in, then grabs em by the throat when they run by her. I jess reel in her leash and bango another saturday dinner ready tah go. Best dang'd fish lure I ever did see :O)

[Zon]

Correction underlined: There's no provision to exempt the poor -- they simply get a "rebate" (prebate) check each month that covers the nrst they pay on necessities purchased each month.

[Deuce]

Personally I would not put a whole lot effort into trying to wring out the last dollar of accuracy in the revenue neutrality argument. Time is likely to see the whole issue go away to be replaced by more overriding concerns like personal liberty and family financial privacy.

My looking into this issue has nothing to do with revenue neutrality. I ASSUME it is revenue neutral. If it is not it's either a tax cut or a tax increase in addition to reform. I want to evaluate the reform, itself. My interest is in trying to accurately reproduce the NRST calculation on 1999 data for the purpose of comparing it to the JCT distribution of tax burden data. I am close to being able to do so.

[lewislynn]

they simply get a "rebate" (prebate) check each month that covers the nrst they pay on necessities purchased each month.

What are the necessities of the poor In San Francisco, California and what are the costs?

What are the necessities of the poor in Pocatella Idaho and what are the costs.