Posted on 10/19/2002 3:41:11 AM PDT by shuckmaster
Edited on 05/07/2004 9:05:57 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
I don't know Mr. Edgerton or his agenda, but I have never seen the name of a single black who was killed "under the Confederate flag."
Maybe some of the FR lost cause brigade can provide the name of one, but they won't provide many, because it just didn't happen.
Walt
Well, yeah.
But on the other hand he gives substance to phrases like, "a bit short of a load", "not playing with a full deck", "his elevator doesn't go all the way to the top", "hasn't quite got a six pack", and so forth.
He'll doubtless be along to prove it before long.
Free Dixie cups now!
Walt
Stavka!
How's Czar Nicky doing?
The so-called CSA not only went to a draft a year before the Union, they also conscripted up to 1/3 of their army. The Union only used about 6% draftees.
More importantly, at a time when the Union soldiers were re-enlisting in large numbers, the soldiers of the so-called CSA were beginning to desert in large numbers.
"A new England private said that each evening the men in the company would speculate about the number of deserters who would come in that night: "The boys talk about the Johnnies as at home we talk about suckers and eels. The boys will look around in the evening and guess that there will be a good run of Johnnies." Heavy firing on the picket line was always taken to mean that the enemy wsa trying to keep deserters from getting away."
"A Stillness at Apotmattox" pp 330-31, by Bruce Catton
Walt
How does this story in any way "lie" about your heritage?
As far as Walt is concerned, Ive seen him jump in on any thread remotely concerning the South and spew venom for no reason except to pick a fight.
Ive also seen Walt get his clock cleaned in fights he started, which is hilarious.
Awwwww........
No, if you go back to my, okay, second post in this thread, you'll see that I excerpted something from the article that wasn't true. There is little evidence in the record of black CSA soldiers. Hold the BS, and you'll see me no more.
Shuckmeister started this thread, even though -- if he's at all rational -- he knows the article is riven with falsehood. I didn't start it and I seldom post articles. But I am always willing to meet the CSA lost brigade's BS head on.
Walt
Fair enough,
So long as you recognize that, as a conservative who has only lived briefly in the south and only visits there today, I consider the modern liberal's trinity of Lincoln, FDR, and Kennedy to have done more deconstruct what America was meant to be than any others in our history.
And, I consider the mythology that was built around each of them to have become so entrenched in our schools, media, and political process as to have created the Carters and Clintons that continue to torment us today.
I don't for an instant doubt the integrety or honor of the individual soldier or most of their commanders.
(And, I don't intend to make this an ongoing debate.)
You won't show that by appeal to the record.
Meanwhile, the Alabama constitution of 1861 FORBADE the freeing of ANY slaves, and that sentiment was common in the so-called CSA.
"The main excitant impulse was fear, and they wanted to protect the institution, not to penalize the individual. It was because the free Negro menaced the institution, because manumission undermined it, because all self-help systems for the slave corroded It, that pro- slavery men urged new legislation. Their object was not to surround slavery with an atmosphere of terror. It was to shore up an institution built on quick- sand and battered bv all the forces of world sentiment and emergent industrialism.
Ruffin was personally the kindliest of masters. The unhappy fact was that it had become impossible to safeguard slavery without brutal violence to countless individuals; either the institution had to be given up, or the brutality committed.
The legislators of Louisiana and Arkansas, of Alabama and Georgia, with humane men like Ruffin and the Eastern Shore planters of Maryland, had faced this alternative. They had chosen the institution. The Richmond Examiner stated their choice in unflinching language:
It is all an hallucination to suppose that we are ever going to get rid of slavery, or that it will ever be desirable to do so. It is a thing that we cannot do without;that is righteous, profitable, and permanent, and that belongs to Southern society as inherently, intrinsically, and durably as the white race itself. Southern men should act as if the canopy of heaven were inscribed with a covenant, in letters of fire, >that the negro is here, and here forever—is our property, and ours forever—is never to be emancipated—is to be kept hard at work and in rigid subjection all his days.
This has the ring of the Richmond publiisher Fitzhugh, and would have been repudiated by many Southerners. But Jefferson Davis said, July 6, 1859, "There is not probably an intelligent mind among our own citizens who doubts either the moral or the legal right of the institution of African slavery." Senator A. G. Brown said September 4, 1858, that he wanted Cuban, Mexican, and Central American territory for slavery; "I would spread the blessings of slavery . . . to the uttermost ends of the earth."
Such utterances treated slavery as permanent, and assumed that it must be defended at every point."
-- The Emergence of Lincoln vol II, by Allen Nevins
See Moosefart. Ignorance and misinformation abounds.
Don't you want the straight scoop?
Walt
As late as Korea, and Vietnam. And of those that were deservedly awarded, there are some stories both tragic and disgusting that go with them. That of Dwight Johnson from B company of the Forth Infantry Division's 1/69th Armor comes to mind.
Anyone know if there were any black recipients of the Southern Cross of honour, the Confederacy's MOH equivalent? I would expect not, but certainly couldn't back that SWAG up.
-archy-/-
Im not well versed in civil war history and I don't claim to be. I love the South because I was born there. If someone chooses to be proud of their heritage, what's that to you?
I noticed you last Christmas when you posted some of your trademarked Southern hatred on Christ's birthday. It spoke volumes of your mentality, you're not interested in exposing CSA lies only in rabble-rousing. Its a free country...knock yourself out, just be honest about it.
Interestingly enough most of these pamphlets and books quoted were published in New York City. What Walt? Was there a conspiracy of Southern men who mysteriously took over northern publishing houses to produce this Southern propaganda? And they did it under the nose of all these abolitionists that you claim were fighting for the good cause. Oh wait the Abolitionist Party made up less than 1% of the northern population.
You know for your theories to truly work, about 60,000 people have to disappear, half of lincoln's quotes are made up, and the other half you can't apparently take at face value without running through our handydandy Walt translator. If that's not revisionist I don't know what is
March on HK and Godspeed
The day started at 6:30AM at the John C. Calhoun Monument 3miles South of Easley,S.C. with Jay Salley, Scott Goldsmith, Larry Oberstar,H.K., Terry Lee and myself walking and Julie and Betty Scott in their car as escorts as it was still dark. We proceeded 1 mile and met Tony Goodnough who walked with us the nest 1/2 mile to hwy.178. He left us there as his job beckoned. We turned north onto hwy.178 in order to march past school in center of Liberty. This took us approximately 3miles off our course and an hour plus added to time. However, we did get some attention.We resumed our march westward on hwy. 123, walking through wet grass that was almost waist high in places and a minimum of knee high. This slowed our progress somewhat but still maintained a good pace. Somewhere near the hwy.18 exit we were joined by Dixie Horkie and daughter Amanda and son Jason, (I think).We stopped again when passing clemson's city limits to take pictures at the other Calhoun marker. We encounterd some very nice folks at this brief stop.
Then on to clemson. That was a different story. Not many nice people there,but some. After turning off 123 onto 93 to pass by the university we began to get some very hateful and bewildered looks. All marchers were cordial. After marching past the university and through town and within sight of 123 where we would again proceed west we were ( accosted) my term, by the clemson captain of police. We were told at this late juncture that we must obtain a parade permit. After much talk and phone calls to Mr.Lyons and pictures by Pickens Sentinel Paper and all marchers except H.K. furled their flags, we were allowed to continue with the captain escorting H,K. to the clemson city limit sign about 3000 feet west on 123. Now this sounds bad but it isn't all. After marching into Oconee county and terminating our walk at 22 miles, we were informed that a parade permit must be obtained at a cost of $300.00. Well, that ain't going to happen. We will march to seneca city limits sign and all marchers except H.K. and one other without flag will continue through to opposite city limit sign. Then on toward Westminister, S.C. after being rejoined by marchers. More tomorrow if I get up.
R.L.Owings
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