TRANSCRIPT: Moyers hosts RON PAUL (R, Tx) on PBS's "NOW"

"NOW" (PBS) ^ | 10/04/02 | Ron Paul | Bill Moyers

[Askel5]

2309.       "The strict conditions for legitimate defense by military force require rigorous consideration.

The gravity of such a decision makes it subject to rigorous conditions of moral legitimacy.

At one and the same time:

• the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;
  
  
• all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;
  
  
• there must be serious prospects of success;
  
  
• the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modem means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.
  

These are the traditional elements enumerated in what is called the 'JUST WAR' doctrine.

The evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good."

[Drango]

The animals spirits are in a worldwide frenzy

I gave up after reading this...

[Askel5]

Precisely the reason I gave a jumplink to Paul's comments.

Feel free to use whatever excuse you feel merits sticking your head in the sand, however.

[Drango]

You are my superior in ability to adsorb dribble. I admire you.

[Askel5]

Gosh ... who knew that the first two (and only thus far) comments on the thread would consist of

1. An attack of Moyers.

   Who, regardless his own dink motives, is affording the Republican and Christian Ron Paul an excellent platform for educating "animal spirit" sorts of liberals on LEGITIMATE reasons to oppose not only the war but question the wisdom of our preemptive strike "language".

2. A personal attack on me.

Impressive.

[Pistias]

Suprised?

Why?

[nunya bidness]

And they will take our quotes and use it. They could take our legislation and use it. So, yes … I think what we're doing here in re-doing this policy has really changed things a lot and that is probably the thing that we should fear the most.

Good point. I think Ron knows that the Nuclear Club is not admitting any new members. Especially a country that sits in the middle of the ring of fire.

[hinckley buzzard]

"Even the Persian Gulf War might have been better fought by Israel and Moderate Arabs..."

Yuh. THAT was really likely ever to happen, at least on this planet. Don't know about the one Ron Paul inhabits. This interview reveals Paul to be a banal and unexceptional thinker, but at least he got his 15 minutes of fame, courtesy of the liberal drunk.

[Askel5]

Not really. It no longer depresses me quite as much as it used to either.

Well, the most important characteristic was:
Don't mess with the language ...
Don’t have a real debate but just sort of rubberstamp it

RE-ADJUSTMENT

I thought there would be a grave beauty, a sunset splendour
In being the last of one's kind: a topmost moment as one watched
The huge wave curving over Atlantis, the shrouded barge
Turning away with wounded Arthur, or Ilium burning.
Now I see that, all along, I was assuming a posterity
Of gentle hearts: someone, however distant in the depths of time,
Who could pick up our signal, who could understand a story. There won't be.

Between the new Hembidae and us who are dying, already
There rises a barrier across which no voice can ever carry,
For devils are unmaking language. We must let that alone forever.
Uproot your loves, one by one, with care, from the future,
And trusting to no future, receive the massive thrust
And surge of the many-dimensional timeless rays converging
On this small, significant dew drop, the present that mirrors all.

C. S. Lewis -- Open Mic Nite

[Askel5]

THAT was really likely ever to happen, at least on this planet.

Surely it was worth a shot. As Sharon, I believe, reminded the world a few weeks ago, at least Israel WINS every war it sets out to fight.

[FreeReign]

MOYERS: You've been consistent in your conservative positions:

Paul is not a Conservative -- he's a libertarian.

[secretagent]

Paul would call for an end to all U.S. funding of Israel, I believe, along with an end to U.S. funding of Egypt and the PLO via the U.N.

Israel might collapse without U.S. welfare, and then pose no counter to Saddam.

[FreeReign]

And when Israel went in and took out that nuclear reactor in the early 1980s, actually I was one of the very few Republicans who supported it! It's in their interest to deal with it.

Paul liked when Israel used a "pre-emptive" strike.

[Forgiven_Sinner]

2309. "The strict conditions for legitimate defense by military force require rigorous consideration.

The gravity of such a decision makes it subject to rigorous conditions of moral legitimacy.

At one and the same time:

the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;

WTC of NYC down, 4 airplanes down, 3000 people dead. "lasting, grave, and certain" - check.

Some will quibble that we don't have proof that Iraq (Saddam) were directly involved in this particular attack. That's not necessary. They did train al-Qaeda in Iraq, and still harbor them there. They are giving aid and comfort to our enemies. This is in addition to having WMD, a history of using them, and a hatred of US. Evidence: attempted assassination of President GHW Bush.

all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;

Check. Ten years of sanctions, no fly zones, and inspections have been used by Iraq to barter their food money for weapons, kick out inspectors, and build their WMD. The appeal to the UN and to Iraq by President Bush to immediately fulfill its obligations to the UN was their last chance. They have blown it.

there must be serious prospects of success;

Check. I don't think there are too many who doubt the US chances of success. Key will be focusing on destroying WMD rather than occupying territory. Ron Paul did not have much doubt about our success. The nightmare scenario of fighting from block to block in Bagdad can be avoided by simply surrounding the city and let the people surrender block by block in exchange for food.

the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modem means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.

The US war in Afghanistan showed the most accurate use of ordinance in history. Iraq has superior conditions (more military targets) to Afghanistan.

These are the traditional elements enumerated in what is called the 'JUST WAR' doctrine.

The evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good."

That would be our President, Mr. GW Bush. He has shown great prudence so far.

Askel, is this the kind of reply you wanted? I was really disappointed in hearing the famous Mr. Paul. He was either irrational, or operating from a wholly different fact base than I do.

[Pistias]

~"a banal and unexceptional thinker"

Do you even know what those words mean?

[MissAmericanPie]

How disappointing I thought Ron Paul had more sense than this.

[FreeReign]

MOYERS: Have you seen or heard anything from the CIA, the Pentagon, the State Department or the White House to suggest that Saddam Hussein is planning an attack on the United States?

PAUL: No, I see nothing imminent. He doesn't have an air force. He doesn't have a navy. He can't even shoot down … he didn't shoot one of our airplanes down in twelve years … and his army is 1/3 of what it was twelve years ago. So, you know, this fictions that he's Hitler and that he's about to take over the Middle East … I think it's a stretch.

Paul thinks that the Iraqi air force, navy and army are the biggest Iraqi dangers to the U.S. With his above answer to Moyers question, he avoids completely the dangers of WMD and terrorism.

[logician2u]

How disappointing I thought Ron Paul had more sense than this.

And I had thought you did, but no longer.

[Pistias]

I'll have to find a bit of Tolkien that's nagging at me for that tomorrow. Adieu.