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Posted on 09/27/2002 3:15:27 PM PDT by RCW2001
"Western Ports Paralyzed; Talks Stall"
..."The main sticking point is technology. Port managers say technological innovation is crucial to keeping U.S. port operations competitive, but ILWU leaders fear it may end up costing union jobs. "
And so it goes. Union saboteurs (literally, from the French derivation of those who tried to destroy the first machines) stand in the way of innovation and economic efficiency. Yet we continue to kowtow to them. I cannot support unions while most of them simply block the flow of capitalism and spend tens of millions of dollars each and every election cycle to elect Democrats who undermine America, along with the actual values of the Union members themselves, through affirmative action, unrestricted abortion, gay rights, unfettered immigration and welfare programs; destroying the fabric of our nation in an utterly selfish deal with the devil.
Yes, I am indeed "anti-union", until they prove I should be otherwise.
Absolutely right, lewislynn. I know for a fact that the figures stated in the posts above are mostly exaggerated, but even if they weren't, no one has mentioned that longshoremen work in a dangerous workplace and should receive good pay.
The big companies who own the ships are mostly foreign, with a few exceptions like Matson, and these foreign companies would love to pay minimum wage to illegal aliens if they could get away with it. I say more power to American workers and American companies.
I wonder how much this Miniace guy makes? Seven figures to break an American union? Why don't we bitch about how much he makes?
Why don't we? Because we have mind-numbed nitwits who believe everything they're told by the blue haired, checkered pant GOP that unions are bad, unions are communists...That "the free market should decide what your wages are".
The nitwits complaining about how much someone makes don't understand that choosing to join an organized labor union IS the free market and disputes between labor and employer IS the free market and when unions price themselves out of a market,... THAT IS THE FREE MARKET at work.
It's THEIR alternative for the government to ban the freedom to organize and the freedom to have disputes with employers that's communistic.
It never fails. When any union approaches its legal right to withhold labor, in hopes of a contract settlement on favorable terms to the union, FReepers jump all over the union as being anti-American.
When management teams from America's largest corporations go to Congress (both Dem and Pubbie), and ask for handouts, and tools to break their lawfully installed unions, and tip the bargaining table in their favor, most FReepers that opine, opine that such behavior is good, holy, pure, and American.
Amazing...
HOWEVER...
When asked if owners should cease to enjoy the legal framework of organizing, and hiring a professional management team to run their business, and enjoy being protected from liability stemming from the operation of their business, the universal cry is "NO!"
Funny how labor law and corporate law are viewed by statist, GOP-good at all costs, must have the Senate FReepers. I wonder how much sway the owners of any DOW 30 corporation would have in negotiations without the protection of the corporation.
My guess is that anti-union FReeping will continue. It's easier having your world divided up for you and given your talking points, than having to think about it.
Given that unions support the GOP in higher percentages than do Jews, Blacks, and homosexuals, why not blanket comments on negative aspects of Jews, Blacks, and homosexuals?
One would wonder what the union support for Dems would do if the GOP would quit being the blind stooges for management?
Absolutely, I am sure Mr. Fox and President Bush could import them some of those hard-working, family-oriented, just-want-a-better-life people from south of the border.
Just asking, but how good a life can one have in California, especially San Francisco, on 100K. Now keep in mind these folks have to pay their own way - you know taxes, insurance, their homes, food, etc.?
I cannot support unions while most of them simply block the flow of capitalism and spend tens of millions of dollars each and every election cycle to elect Democrats who undermine America, along with the actual values of the Union members themselves, through affirmative action, unrestricted abortion, gay rights, unfettered immigration and welfare programs; destroying the fabric of our nation in an utterly selfish deal with the devil.
Well, well, well...
Yes, many unions give big bucks to counter the millions spent by their opposing management teams to destroy the legal framework from which they operate. Perhaps if the Pubbies quit being the step-and-fetch-it for management, the unions would quit acting likewise in their own interest of preservation.
...and while we are on the subject...
Could you name for me, the legeslation that the GOP House and Senate passed since January 1995 that repealed Affirmative Action? It's OK if The UNIBANGER vetoed it, I just want to know when the GOP stood up against race-based preferences. When I was hired by a federal contrator in '00, I had to dodge the ever present "white boy embargo." Just curious, since the Pubbies had been running the legeslative agenda for 5 years. Tell me, what are the positions of GWB on Affirmative Action? Colon Powell, or anyone in the Administration? Has anyone in the Administration called for an end to Affirmative Action? Anyone? Anyone at all?
What steps has anyone taken since RReagan, to end abortion-on-demand? How do we distinguish between the Pubbies and Dems on the issue? Last I checked, a good number of Pubbies are in favor of killing children, and corporate dollars support these candidates. I see the trend to marginalize pro-life Republicans, while promoting Coastal Pubbies to national prominance who are stridently pro-abortion. I'm confused. I missed the talking points on how all Pubbies are pro-life and all Dems are pro-abortion.
What efforts by prominant Pubbies have rolled back the indoctrination of homosexual lifestyles in our culture and public schools? Where are the Pubbies on this one? All I hear is silence on "gay rights."
Tell me, what president called for amnesty for all Central American mestizos living in the USA without proper legal authorization? I believe that is the former governor of the 100% conservative wet dream of Texas. Yup...it's true. What mention by ANY prominant Pubbie calls for even the smallest move to ending the absolute free-for-all on our borders? Anyone? Anyone at all? Sure, Buchanan mentioned it, but the Pubbies put him in the political version of the toxic waste dump. They won't go anywhere near this guy - no matter how many times he proves them wrong.
Finally, how is social spending since January 1995? How about since January 2001? Why, you don't say? It's WAY up. Yes, those small-gov't, anti-tax Pubbies have really taken a meat-axe to the social portion of our gov't spending - not! The Pubbies have controlled the tax writing authority for almost eight consecutive years, and I am paying 1/3 of my hard-earned "union" wages away in Federal Income Tax, another 15% in keeping the grey geezers from going on about "how they packed a rifle in WWII," Medicare, gas taxes, import taxes, capital gains tax, long-term, short-term, AMT, and on and on and on...
Even in the 100% liberal wasteland of Washington in the Pacific Northwest, my property tax is HALF of what it is in the 100% conservative wet dream, libertarian heaven of Texas. It's easier to get a gun and a CWP (FAR EASIER) in Washington than just about anywhere else, even Texas.
If you want to discuss the destroying of the fabric of our nation, look no farther than your local Pubbie. These guys authored the most draconian, police-state legeslation over the past 25 years than the Dems could even dream up. Go look for yourself at the absolute disaster that the 104th Congress was in individual liberties. My gov't tracks its citizens with a zeal never seen on the North American continent. When the Al brothers crashed 4 airplanes and killed 3000 Americans, the Pubbies passed even more legeslation at monitoring US CITIZENS!!!! The 1st, 4th, 5th, and 6th Amendments in the Bill of Rights have been gutted by the Pubbie Congress/President or will be reinterpereted by our courts. That, my friend, is about as anti-American as you get. America was the second great experiment in restrained government and human liberty in world history. The Pubbies have led the charge and the Dems are all too happy to follow.
Not all is what it seems. Your statist Pubbie is only interested in power - just like his Dem partner. Neither side gives a rats @$$ about your freedom or way of life.
I have been thinking that I see a little of the elitist in some of the posts with reference to the American working man on other threads and here. It almost seems there are some people who think if a man works with his hands (or back), he shouldn't make a decent wage. I don't know if they feel since they have high educations or white collar jobs, it threatens them that someone who chooses to do otherwise is actually making a living wage.
Maybe that is why so many people favor the illegals working. They have someone for whom they can have a real feeling of superiority, because they mistakenly think these folks are not making much money.
Sure it would hurt for a while. Not nearly as long, however, as the coming disaster from not manufacturing anything and from all the foreign workers illegal and otherwise.
I want something done about the illegal immigration right now - then the legal immigration. I don't have many occasions to call companies, but last month my husband and I spoke with three companies - one an insurance company, there he spoke with three different employees - I spoke with A T & T - just one employee - and I spoke with American Express - just one employee there also. Now the strange thing about this - all these employees spoke with a foreign and I believe Middle Eastern accent. It gave me a funny feeling - frightening!!
I think you covered all the bases and did it quite nicely. Thanks.
Take a look at the unions who deal with "public employees" in places like New York (especially the city, but also the state). Teachers here in the Binghamton area are still receiving 5-15% raises, while IBM and practically all other employers in the area are cutting back or shutting down. I got a 3.3% pay cut as of January 2002, with no pay raise this year. My prescription insurance rider went up 50%, and I have 3 kids.
I'm not reflexively against anything, but I see a lot of unions killing themselves with their "success" in negotiating pay raises, etc.
Bingoland is facing a 12.5% sales tax hike, or a 32% property tax hike, or both.
The bottom line in this particular dispute is this: The longshoremen have been in a "slow down" mode at work for weeks. The people who own the ships were paying full charge for half service. They can't simply fire them all - so sayeth the union contract, after all. Instead, they fought back with the best weapon they had available - a lockout that transfers some of the economic pain to those inflicting it.
The unions were born to balance the power of the business owners at a time when the business moguls were abusive. Now, IMHO, the unions have a tendency to be just as abusive. A balance must be sought.
You're not anti-American for supporting the unions in whatever industry, just as those of us with differing opinions arean't. Sorry - I won't rise to that bait.
Yes, the ILWU has been on what is called a "work to the rule" campaign. It's a negotiating tactic just as stalling contract talks is a tactic of the management team. Also, a lockout is a lawful weapon that management has, just as a strike is one that labor has in its arsenal.
I support management's right to lockout employees. It's a high stakes game, and that's what happens. When it is done, the market will have decided what the pay, rules, and scope are for the next contract. The gov't should butt out and let the two sides hammer out an agreement.
Just because some industries are taking cuts, does not obligate the unions from doing likewise, just as when unions take a concession, the surrounding workforce should not be compelled to take a cut.
I'm in a union, and my medical insurance costs to me have risen. That's the contract - no tears here.
If you think we live in a time where unions can call the shots in negotiations, your horizon on history is very, VERY limited. Today is one of the most difficult times for labor in the history of the NLRA. The sway that labor brings to the table has been reduced to a shadow of its former self. That's the market. Too bad for labor.
Just because management can't get EVERYTHING they want, does not mean that the environment is dominated by labor.
My point as to whom is "anti-American" is aimed at those FReepers that reflexivley state that support of unions is tantamount to supporting Marxism. If you believe that labor law has its place in America, then we agree. I believe that the trend in the past 25 years has been toward management going to both the Dems and Pubbies and asking that the laws be changed in their favor.
Replacing American jobs, both union and non-union, with peasant labor in the Far East or Latin America is un-American. It may be pro-capitalist, and good for the business, but in the long term, it is bad for America. Reducing America to the standard of serfs in the aforementioned regions has obvious bad ramifications. Not all Americans can benefit from this trend. Not all of us have allegiance to the new global order. Some of us still believe that America is worth protecting and preserving.
To hell with China, Mexico, India, Pakistan, Malaysia, Korea, etc. I have no problems with competing with "like" economies - apples to apples, but I will not ever support the notion that asking the lower third of our population to compete with the starving, uneducated, illiterate hordes in the Third World is good for America as a whole.
Harrumph! Harrumph! Harrumph!
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