***I Just Watched Sen. Bob Graham (D-FL)Loose His Reelection***

Stardate: 0209.15

[sneakypete]

The religious nutcases are not nor were they in power in Iraq!!!!

I know. It was a typo. I MEANT to write "Iran".

[sneakypete]

If we decide to go in, all the resolve in the world won't change one fact, IT'S OVER>

Ahhh,the old "might makes right" arguement! Don't worry ,though. I'm confident we WILL be going in. The midterm elections might depend on it.

[xJones]

Sneaky, I think we agree that this Arabic countries are tribal and they don't want democracy. It's nowhere in their clanish or religious traditions. Yes, Saudi Arabia, Kuwaitt, and Iran better worry if Saddam gets nukes. They will be the first on his "hold muh nuke and watch this" list. They are afraid though, and how much easier it is to let Westerners solve their problems, rather than try something themselves. And another upside for their 'governments' would be that afterwards, they could content their primitives by blaming the kafirs and "The Great Satan", the usual suspects, as always.

Our problem is what if they don't take care of Saddam and themselves? A more incompetant set of bungling idiots would be hard to find, outside of Zimbabwe. Saddam has a grudge against America, too. and he is an underhanded, cunning little madman.

I'm just tossing the debate ball around, because the last thing I want to see is Americans stuck as perminant peacekeepers in 7th century countries.

[xJones]

You better take back #82. Sneakypete spent five years in the Special Forces during Viet Nam. This is well documented. Unlike you, he's been there, done that, and bought a whole department store of T-shirts. The man is a patriot with legitimate arguments. What's the matter, can't stand a debate, or do we all have to join your choir? Whatever happened to an honest discussion?

[xJones]

Whoops, that was your post #52.

[billhilly]

"Let them earn their own freedoms so they will value them. People who have it handed to them on a silver platter don't have the same respect for it as do those who fight for it."

Do you treasure your own freedom less because our allies have helped us to achieve it? Did the American Revolution provide us the opportunity to obtain our freedom without help from others? Perhaps it did provide the opportunity, but the truth is, the French, Spanish, and Dutch Republic all fought with us so that we could obtain independence from England.

[xJones]

Yes, and we helped South Africa and Zimbabwe get their freedom. We're already sending food to Zimbabwe, once the most prosperest farming country in southern Africa and South Africa has the highest murder/rape rate now in the world. Some people don't want democracy and the citizens don't rise up and fight back oppressors. We can't educate those that don't want it.

[billhilly]

"Yes, and we helped South Africa and Zimbabwe get their freedom."

Do you equate changing regimes with obtaining freedom? They are often seperate issues. The cases you cite for instance. Somehow I can't remember us ever engaging, except rhetorically and economically in the affairs of either country.

[xJones]

Our rhetoric, embargos, and intense political and media pressures did bring down those 'regimes'. And they were replaced by far worse ones, which the Western left has turned a blind eye to. Their tribes are taking back over.

There is no history of democracy in the Arabic countries. What are we, the world's school teachers in addition to the world's police? We are dealing with completely different cultures.

The only reason I support action against Saddam Hussein is that he has biochemical labs and it seeking to acquire nuclear capabilies. And I don't believe he would send a dirty nuke in a suitcase to the U.S. marked "Made in Iraq", but I wouldn't trust him for a moment. Any reading of the history of Saddem and his family is blood-curdling. They are nuts, and very wealthy, ambitious nuts.

[VaBthang4]

"Let me see if I have this straight,ok?"

Uh....alright.

"Are you accusing me of being un-patriotic or disloyal to America because I'm not a Bush-Bot?"

Uh...no...I looked back through my posts but didnt see where I said that. Perhaps including a quote could help clear things up.

"If the whole concept of what America is all about is this confusing to you,try to find a 5th grader to explain it in language you MIGHT be able to understand."

???

LOL

The only thing confusing me is....you.

[VaBthang4]

You're also confusing me.

"You better take back #82."

???

Uh...alright.

"Sneakypete spent five years in the Special Forces during Viet Nam. This is well documented."

Good for him. My pops spent ten in Marine Corps SpecFor and I spent two...

Now that we've all thrown our Johnsons out on the table, perhaps we can proceed.

"Unlike you, he's been there, done that, and bought a whole department store of T-shirts."

??? That must be some old seventies phrase.

"What's the matter, can't stand a debate, or do we all have to join your choir?"

I am not in a choir. Is someone parading around FR claiming to be in a choir with me?! You guys better cut that out. I'm no cakeboy. ~grin~

"Whatever happened to an honest discussion?"

My assumption is that you lost it on the way to writing your post.

[spintreebob]

I wonder if that explains why so many men prefer to date conservative women.

My observation is the opposite. Men prefer to date liberal women....but marry conservative women.

[billhilly]

I lived in Libya from 1956-1958. It was a Monarchy then, reigned over by King Idris. I studied the language and the culture. From that time I have had a great interest in the middle east.

It might be useful to you to go to the library and find some old political maps of Africa. A lot has happened there in the past fifty years. The Europeans ceded their control of the continent, but in most cases they were replaced by oppressive regimes who made conditions far worse than they found them.

There are not many changes in the Arab world. There has been one leader of Libya since King Idris. The Saud family still rules and controls Saudi Arabia. King Hussain of Jordon recently died, and now his son is King. I could go on, but why?

[xJones]

"Whatever happened to an honest discussion?" My assumption is that you lost it on the way to writing your post.

No, you lost it in your post #52. That was no discussion, but you know that.

[VaBthang4]

Oi...

Where has anyone asserted that I was attempting to start a discussion?

That is called a .GIF

It is a graphic that displays a message. "Losertarian Alert"

Now sugar if you dont like that graphic then you have had ample opportunity to say so and to start an "honest discussion" but you have not done so even though your implied desire is for that very thing.

???

[xJones]

Sugar, you don't appear capable of discussion. You don't even read posts like #83 and #89, do you? Just invective?

[VaBthang4]

Ugh...

[VaBthang4]

Since your MO is to point to responses made to others...may I direct you to a response of mine made towards someone else...

http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/748117/posts

Wrestle with that for awhile.

~grin~

[spectre]

Yep. There are a lot of good 'ol boys in Arkansas that drive gas-guzzling pickups and would die before they gave up their guns that voted for Gore in the last election. They are otherwise salt of the earth people. When I reminded a few of them that Gore wanted to take away both their vehicles and guns, the usual reply was that "if he said it, he wasn't serious."

Talk about cognitive dissonance. These are guys in their 30s and 40s that never got over Reconstruction - they still vote like their grand daddys.

[xJones]

Ugh...

Your intelligence is only exceeded by your eloquence. And you don't even know how to post links.