Tech doesn't buoy Netscape browser

CNET News.com ^ | August 28, 2002, 9:32 AM PT | Matthew Broersma

[Joe Bonforte]

GET sloppy!?!? The ONE application that I can count on to lock my system up "tighter than a bull's ass in fly season" is good old Internet Explorer.

That is completely at odds with my experience. I switched from Netscape to IE at version 3.0 of each because Netscape was crashing three or four times during a two-hour session of browsing. In the four or five years since then, I'd guess IE has locked up perhaps three times total, and I don't recall any lockup in IE6 on Windows XP, which is what I've been using for the last nine months.

[rdb3]

Tell me something, B2K. Why is IE available for Solaris, but not for Linux? I don't get that one.

[TheEngineer]

IE has now reached 96 percent market share, according to StatMarket, up from 87 percent a year ago.

Why is MS excited about a 96% market share for a free product? The higher the market share, the higher the support/maintenance costs for MS... with no associated revenue. It ain't like people are going to stop using WindowsXP because it doesn't have an integrated web browser.

I guess I don't see how IE helps MS. Just the bandwidth costs alone (for providing free downloads and updates) would choke any company south of an IBM or General Motors.

[TheEngineer]

Netscape has begun actively tracking down popular Web sites that do not render correctly in its browser and encouraging the sites to fix the errors.

I wonder if they contacted the webmaster at microsoft.com? :-)

Seriously, though, as several people mentioned earlier in this thread... It is a royal pain to develop for multiple browsers. Especially for different DOM and javascript implementations. But people are still doing it.

Pre-circa-2002, I ran into a lot of problems surfing rushlimbaugh.com using Netscape 4.7. It seemed to be designed for IE exclusively. However, now it seems to work very well with Netscape 4.7. I don't know what they did, but I suspect that they eliminated proprietary extensions after Netscape users complained (and stopped subscribing to Rush 24x7.).

[SamAdams76]

Netscape has begun actively tracking down popular Web sites that do not render correctly in its browser and encouraging the sites to fix the errors. The company said it has now eradicated errors from most popular sites.

Therein lies the problem for Netscape. Instead of fixing their browser to properly display the websites, they are asking the websites to reprogram their code to accomodate them! If my company adopted that business strategy, they'd be going down the tubes too.

[gitmo]

I used Opera for about a year when it first came out, and was unimpressed as far as features went. The speed was very good, though.

What has Opera got that has you sold on it? I may need to get a new version.

[jordan8]

Netscape 4.8 is out for those who are interested:

Base Install (17mb)

Full Install (22mb)

[APBaer]

"What has Opera got that has you sold on it?"

I have used Opera as my primary browser for about four years. I therefore usually notice its features when I try another browser and discover that the other browser doesn't have a feature I am used to.

I think you are right to consider downloading a copy and trying it. Every person uses a browser for different things, and therefore one man's feature is another man's useless add-on.

Things I especially like are:
The ability to open many windows at once. For instance if you had a folder that contained a dozen of your favorite stock market sites, with one click you can open all 12 sites.

Another feature is the ability to shrink or expand the content of any window, from 1/5 original size to ten times original size.

It has a bar along the top with a window into which you can type a word to be found on a page, or to be liiked up in a search engine.

I would suggest you give it a try.

[tubebender]

"
Why is MS excited about a 96% market share for a free product? The higher the market share, the higher the support/maintenance costs for MS... with no associated revenue. It ain't like people are going to stop using WindowsXP because it doesn't have an integrated web browser. "

Shouldn't the question be...How much will MS charge for IE and how soon ?

[Museum Twenty]

Well, I am an Opera fan, too.

I use IE at the office because I have no choice, but I use Opera at home, and have not regretted the expense.

A couple of things I like and use a lot:

Zoom feature. Can make a page much bigger or smaller; really helpful with pictures. Also with text; less strain on the eyes.

Can set a page to reload automatically at an interval of my choosing. This is helpful for sports or Drudge.

If I close out accidentally, or if it crashes (rare), all the windows that were open reopen when I relaunch.

Can turn off all pop-ups -- it works!

There are other reasons too, I'm sure. I set a lot of preferences when I first started using it that I don't recall, but was pleased at the time to see such options.

One more that I just remembered -- I listen to streaming audio -- many times the audio feed doesn't go to Media Player or Real Player, but opens its own IE window. Often on IE when I click a link, it decides to put that page in the audio window -- bye bye audio. Not a problem with Opera.

[gitmo]

Thanks. I'll give Opera another shot.

[altair]

it's much different than it was even back then and certainly very different from when we first ran across Linus in 1991.

I should hope so. That was a year before linux-0.01 (which was labeled as a pre-alpha, not production) was released.

[TheEngineer]

I used to agree with you. Back when they were destroying Netscape, I figured they would eventually start charging when Netscape was out of the picture. But I don't see how they can successfully charge in this environment. There are too many free web browsers out there... Mozilla, Opera, Netscape, etc.

IMO, IE is the best browser out there. But that doesn't translate into MS having the ability to charge money when there is competition that doesn't charge. Back in the days of IE 2.0 versus Netscape 2.0, Netscape had the better quality... but they couldn't beat free. Computer users, on the whole, are really a bunch of cheapskates. :-)

[JameRetief]

Does [Mozilla] allow you to disable pop up windows? I'm using pop up stopper but I would rather have it as a browser option. Under IE, it causes script errors.

Yes Mozilla has a built in pop up stopper. I haven't tried to adjust the settings though since the default setting is fantastic at stopping pop ups. I have very rarely had a pop up sneak through, but it is flexible enough that it won't interfere with a website that uses multiple windows (something I can't say about anhy of the 3rd party pop up stoppers that I've used).

[isthisnickcool]

I should hope so. That was a year before linux-0.01 (which was labeled as a pre-alpha, not production) was released.

Uh huh. It was an interesting time. I recall chatting with several companies about what I was seeing with Linus and "Linux". One company was the Santa Cruz Operation (SCO). SCO's response was to ignore things. And that's what they did. In the face of disruptive technology. Others did the same. Others do now. The game is far from over....

[altair]

SCO's response was to ignore things.

At that time and even through around 1998, that was an appropriate response. After all, how long has Stallman been promising The Hurd without delivering? There's serious corporate muscle behind Linux kernel development now and things are developing quickly.

[Bush2000]

Netscape 4.8 is out for those who are interested:

No thanks. I'd rather chew broken glass.

[pt17]

Driving customers away is no way to run a business

You're absolutely right. In the last year and a half, we've had no customer or prospect demands for anything other than IE (for advanced B-B internet-based applications, not website stuff) on Windows PCs. Also, the cost of developing such applications is sufficiently high as to preclude development for browsers with minimal market share. If the market was there, we'd build for it but we're in the business of meeting our customer needs and requirements. We're not in the business of participating in any technology crusade.

[dheretic]

In all probability, releasing IE sources would cement its lead just that much more.

If it isn't released under a license similar to the GPL, QPL or BSD license it's irrelevent. It would simply make creating new hacks that much easier. The only thing that has saved Microsoft's ass is that IE's source isn't open. The Mozilla team doesn't have that luxury. They have to be a bit more conscious of the potential problems with releasing bad code.

[dheretic]

Instead of fixing their browser to properly display the websites, they are asking the websites to reprogram their code to accomodate them!

Mozilla is built to be compliant with W3C specs for HTML, Javascript, etc. If a page won't render correctly in Mozilla (ergo NS 6 and 7) it means the site was built specifically for IE. If the site uses IE specific features and not W3C standards then you shouldn't expect Netscape to load it properly. What Netscape is doing is saying "WRITE TO THE F%#$ING ACCEPTED STANDARDS!!!!" in a more polite way. Many users have been bitching about this for years. The Mozilla hackers are more concerned with standards that'll work consistantly on all supported platforms, not locking in developers.