Tree sitters discover increasing support

the Register Guard ^ | 26 Aug 02 | By EVELYN NIEVES

[Signboy]

the way he acquired the company

What's your point? Shareholders of the old Pacific Lumber Company accepted a buyout price. Their management, who had under-managed the company for years, fought the offer. They lost. That's the way it goes. As for Kaiser, if the workers and management can't come to a collective bargaining agreement, lockouts are one possibility. Not many winners, I would agree, though.

[seventhson]

Yeah well,that is the reality of the situation,probobly not optimal for the Kaiser workers,but I guess that's the way it goes.I tend to support labor over management in these matters,but you are right,that's how it goes in the hardball world.

[Glutton]

I am intersted as heck in getting Carry Okie up here to speak next February/March at the Environmental Law conference at the University of Oregon. I respect and like him a great deal.

As far as "running," I'm not. I will debate anyone full bore in E mail or FReeper mail, but this is a conservative forum, and I have a respnsibility not to anger our host, Jim Robinson.

As a timber worker who saw my job vanish, I would also love to introduce blackie, or someone to my old boss who knows a great deal on the unethical nature of the reforestation industry these days.

As a veteran and an American citizen I should not have been sidetracked out of the woods, and I know this to be an important issue getting too little play anywhere these issues are discussed.

In any event, thanks for sharing your concerns, but I will gladly and openly meet face to face with anyone here in Oregon worried I am some horrible person wanting to distroy jobs and the environment.

I would gladly introduce you to some friends of mine in town who respect and like me very much, and would vouch for me as being very respectable.

Have a good weekend, I am busy this week, and it is hard to find time to get in here until next Wednesday, but I will try. I am FReeper mailing you too, so check your box.

[Frohickey]

Here is the page at Tree-Sit.org I was thinking of when I posted the first link in a response to you.

How come none of the 'lost warriors' are over 30 years of age? Could it be that the environmental lobby, which is predominantly eco-lawyers would rather use the young as cannon-fodder?

[Frohickey]

The use of "forest names" is due to fear of federal and local police intelligence gathering, and to remove "the ego aspects" of the action.

Those out to gain notoriety for themselves are not wanted out there in the woods.

It is also part of the rite of passage of becoming a citizen of a "tree village," the common name for an area in the forest with several tree-sits.

Most sitters also cover their faces and don't talk about what they did out in the woods when they return to civilization.

It sounds like you know this from first-hand experience.

[Frohickey]

I am undesireable as an American citicen and a veteran compared to a Mexican who will shut up and take the minumum wage, live in an inadequate camp in the woods, and help the United States Forest Service or private industry plant their trees blind to the injustices mete out to journeyman planters like my brethren and myself now Jerrymandered out of the woods.

Does this mean that you are against illegal aliens and would gladly protest for proper securing of our borders? Would you be for deportation of any and all illegal aliens? Would you be against giving welfare or health benefits to illegal aliens?

We should get government out of the job of administering the forests and lands. Government is only allowed to have 10 square miles, and they already have that in Washington DC. Anything else is "for forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards or other needful buildings."

A private owner would seriously balk at the state of his land after what you say some timber companies do to state-owned land. Maybe to the point that if timber companies do the deed, they would have to compensate the property owner pretty well for the landowner to look the other way. Also, if the land is owned by the timber company, if you were the CEO, wouldn't you ensure that your land remains productive as long as possible, preferably forever?

I'm not saying that you are socialist, or that you have socialist tendencies, but maybe, just maybe, socialist policies (govt owned production of trees), are what is to blame for the current state of forest conditions.

Thing is, I don't see the environmentalist groups lobbying for less government ownership of lands.

[Frohickey]

They should just cut the tree down without telling her.

But she would get hurt when it falls. Better to spray some Round-Up instead. :)

[Frohickey]

My understanding is most of the big Redwood trees remaining are in parks in California-which is where I feel they should be.They are part of our national heritage and I feel for a greedy CEO such as Hurwitz to have control over such treasures is not optimal.From a monetary standpoint,these trees are worth more as a tourist attraction over the years in the future than they will be as decks for yuppies in Marin Co.

The fact that the wannabe deck-owners in Marin County have put more money on the table than the Redwood-lover nature-hikers speaks volumes.

Capitalism works.

[seventhson]

Capitalism does work,but in this case it might work better if these trees were profited on over a longer period of time.Part of the problem is that the potential for windfall profits is being favored over longterm gains.I'm all for logging,and the production of wood products(I work in the woods too),and I hope the loggers keep busy,but I can't see cutting the few remaining Giant Redwoods for dimensional lumber.

[Frohickey]

I'm all for logging,and the production of wood products(I work in the woods too),and I hope the loggers keep busy,but I can't see cutting the few remaining Giant Redwoods for dimensional lumber.

The main point that you are missing is this...

You don't have a right to determine what happens to the few remaining Giant Redwoods. The only time you have a right to determine what happens is if you OWN it.

If you OWN it, then I will gladly support your right to do with your own property as you see fit. The problem with socialism is that government is now administering the property. But ultimately, the property is both yours and mine. My side wants it cut, your side doesn't. How do you resolve that? Through endless lawsuits and environmental impact reports? I say not. The way I would resolve this is to turn it to private ownership.

If I OWN it, I can cut it. But you could try to buy it away from me and not cut it. Or, if you OWN it, you can refuse to cut it, but I could always try and buy it away from you as well.

[bfree]

Simple solution to the problem is to cut down the trees with the treesitters still in them.

[Frohickey]

Now, before you interject that argument with, how can my Giant Redwood nature-hiker company compete with the Yuppy Catering Redwood patio deck company? Simple. You go to the marketplace and see if customers are willing to pay for your service.

If you are unable to find enough customers, and I am, then I guess I get to buy the property, and my customers reap the benefits. If the tables were switched, then your nature-hikers reap the benefits.

The way it is now, where both you and I have to pay for the trees, but you get your way, while I don't get my patio decks, you just took from me without compensating me for it.

I don't know where you live, but around where I live, that is called STEALING.

[seventhson]

Pacific Lumber got bought out of most of the headwaters tract-maybe they will be open to a buy-out in this instance as well.I'm certainly not saying they should be stripped of their assets,obviously it is private property,if the public wants the timber there,and feels it is worth buying,that might be a possible way to solve this situation.

[Irish Eyes]

I wonder if there were any tree-sitters in our forests in Arizona during the Rodeo-Chedeski fire. I guess we will never know.

It was summertime so I guess they would not be too comfortable in our hot climate.(and as we all know it got MUCH warmer)

[Jolly Rodgers]

Got'cher freepmail. ;-)