Bush to push for thinning

Oregon Live/ AP ^ | 21 August 2002 | AP Staff

[B4Ranch]

Until Bush is ready to answer illegal immigration control and deportation , please don't get too enthused with him, no matter what he does with our forestry situation. Illegal immigration is the #1 problem that Americas has and the RNC refuses to address it.

[Grampa Dave]

So will Biscuit exceed 500,000 acres by the end of this week or has it exceeded 500,000 and we aren't being told about it.

500,000 burnt and still burning acres is a massive amount and is too easy for Americans to remember. We may have to hire flyovers to accurately assess the total acres to get the truth out.

Stay safe. It is supposed to get hot again in the fire area!

[SGCOS]

It will be interesting to see where dasshole comes down on this. Whether to fight the President with his eternal partisan politics, or to tell the enivornMENTALists to stick it where the sun don't shine. (In this case, that would be the forest floor.)

[justshe]

Until President Bush went to Crawford...he gave almost daily speeches from around the country,which I watched. In every speech he made a reference to the Senate...and how the Senate was holding up vital legislation and judicial nominees. Since he has been in Crawford....I have seen 3 speeches. Same......many references to the Senate. You need to check your facts more thoroughly I think.

[Grampa Dave]

Why don't you drive up to Klamath Falls, Medford and Grants Pass and ask 50 citizens in each city what is more important to them today:

Getting control of the forests back or illegal immigration?

Then get back to us with your report!

I despise illegal immigration but when my house is about to burn up, I'm concerned about the fire.

Anyway, make the drive up and let us know what the #1 priority is up there. I dare you!

[putupon]

You need to check your facts more thoroughly I think.

The fact is Bush has accomplished nothing outside of the war in Afghanistan, and all he had to do there was let the military do their job. I think the Right is in denial that we have a RINO in the White House.

[justshe]

Also.......when you can't breath...even with your house closed up (assuming you still have a house)....for day after day after day. I have 2 hepa air filters going at maximum. Still seeps in. You cough continuously...yeah, forests get my vote right now.

Folks with asthma or compromised immune systems are especially vulnerable. Young children about to go back to school. The smoke isn't just your 'friendly campfire smoke'. It is acrid......and thick like a dense fog bank...and ash covers everything.

So thank you Grampa Dave.....for putting a touch of reality to the situation here in Oregon.

[My2Cents]

From the headline, I thought this was a new federal crusade against obesity.

[elcaudillo]

This is great news and exactly why I voted for this man for president. I knew he'd come through.

Meanwhile, what's the latest update on the War On Terrorism? As far as I know, we have lost more of our own troops due to accidents than fighting terrorists. Our nation is filled with terrorists who have been here for years. They're easy to find. Just break down the doors of all the mosques that dot North America and you'll find it full of terrorists. Better yet, check out the universities where not only are many students muslim-terrorists-in-waiting, but they're "taught" by sympathetic professors.

But meanwhile the War On Fatsos will be led by our svelte president.

[madfly]

Source

How fires may forge truce in 'timber wars'

New approaches could bridge political divides.

By Brad Knickerbocker

ASHLAND, ORE. –

As firefighters from as far away as New Zealand work to dampen one of the worst wildfire seasons in US history, Democrats and Republicans in Congress and state capitols are joining forces to make the West less flammable.

Once the smoke clears, which may not be until seasonal rains return in the fall, this could be the means for negotiating a truce in the West's "timber wars." For more than a decade, loggers in hard hats have clashed against environmentalists willing to chain themselves to ancient trees. The current crisis is also opening up the possibility for innovative ways of making forest thinning (not to be confused with massive clear-cuts) commercially viable. Even some conservation groups now favor this, despite their traditional opposition to anything involving a chain saw.President Bush this week visits the "Biscuit Fire," now spread over nearly 450,000 acres in Oregon and California, highlighting an issue that is as politically charged as it's ever been.

"My state is burning up right now," says Sen. Ron Wyden (D) of Oregon. "It's absolutely critical that we, on a bipartisan basis, move aggressively with a fuels-reduction program to reduce fires."

Senator Wyden has joined with Sen. Larry Craig (R) of Idaho to sponsor a bill that would protect older trees while making it easier for timber companies to cut younger trees in federal forests. It would do that by speeding up the appeals process that has effectively blocked many sales.

This is in line with what other lawmakers want as well. "Without active management, we will be asking ourselves in a few short years where our forests have gone," a bipartisan group of senators warned recently. "We must deal with this problem and take an aggressive proactive approach to fire and forest management."

Western governors – from liberal Democrat John Kitzhaber of Oregon to conservative Republican Judy Martz of Montana – are also eager to get beyond the political and legal delays symbolized by such incendiary buzzwords as "salvage logging."

Foreign terrain for Democrats

This turn of events is putting Democrats at odds with many of their traditional supporters in the environmental community. But there's also a sense that the important thing is forest protection and fire prevention – not simply scoring political points.

"The bottom line has to be solution-driven rather than blame-driven," says Lou Gold, a longtime forest activist who lives near the massive fire in southern Oregon that has been burning for more than a month and is only 35 percent contained.

If anything, the science of forest management is even more complicated than its politics.

Across much of the West, the natural fires that historically swept the forest floor while leaving the larger trees have been replaced by a century of fire suppression, industrial logging, and tree plantations. In the process, downed limbs and other natural woody debris have built to unnatural levels. High heat, low humidity, winds, and lightning strikes complete a situation that this year has burned nearly 6 million acres (more than twice the yearly average) and will likely cost upwards of $1.5 billion to fight.

While biologists stress the importance of healthy mixed-age forests, they also acknowledge that mechanical manipulation – some logging – may be necessary to replace natural fires no longer tolerated by a public that wants to live near and play in the woods.

"Done correctly, thinning younger stands can produce logs while at the same time enhancing ecological and conservation values by reducing susceptibility to fire and other disturbances...." seven prominent scientists from the Pacific Northwest wrote last year to federal officials.

Two major questions need to be resolved: What constitutes an old-growth forest with commercial as well as biological value? And how should the cost of reducing the risk of potentially catastrophic fires be met?

The timber industry and its political supporters say enough timber needs to be cut (typically larger, older trees) to at least cover the cost of thinning and cleaning up fire-prone forests.

Others argue that this makes no more sense than charging individuals whose homes are saved from destruction by city firefighters. "This coupling of public safety and timber harvests is absurd," says Mr. Gold, the Oregon activist. He adds, "Risk reduction on public land and financial assistance to private landowners could be achieved for a lot less than we now have to spend putting out the Biscuit Fire."

Part of the answer may be new sawmills specifically designed to handle logs as small as five inches in diameter – the kinds of trees that scientists say should be thinned to preserve bigger, older trees while reducing fire risks.

The makings of a new market

The Greater Flagstaff Forests Partnership (academic, environmental, business, and government organizations in Arizona) recently reported that there would be a market for products from smaller logs, including laminated beams and flooring. But to make it happen, the group said, would take government support. "We have clearly identified a new market niche in the Southwest, and it is entirely driven by federal action," says Catherine Mater, the study's lead author.

The end result could be a win-win situation for business and the environment. "The potential to create a new economic sector based entirely on restoration activities is high," says Brad Ack of the Grand Canyon Trust, a conservation group in Flagstaff, Ariz. "This is doing good and doing well at the same time."

[Grampa Dave]

I don't live where you are with the smoke from several fires but I know what you are talking about.

I had asthma for the first seven years of my life and that had a negative impact on adult lung capacity. I have had allergies very bad until this year (my wife says that I have outgrown my allergies during my second childhood).

Smoke and I don't get along very well.

Three years ago we had the massive uncontrolled blaze east of Eureka up inland about 100 miles. That smoke got down here, then we had a bad fire just north of here that lasted for a couple of weeks.

I had to go buy a heavy duty Hepa filter. I moved it from room to room to be able to breath. At night we shut the doors in the master bedroom and had it going all night by our bed. Then I brought it to my office, turned it on and shut the door. In the evening I took it to the family room kitchen area and shut the doors and turned it on. I was changing filters every 5 to 7 days.

That is nothing compared to what you, auntb, granof8, archie, wanderin and others have had to put up with for over a month.

[B4Ranch]

I wish I had the physical mobility to do just what you suggest. I think the results might surprise you. Yes, the fire is very, very important but national sovereignty is more important.

[justshe]

Let's see. I picked this up from someone,on a much earlier thread.

* secured passage through Congress of a $1.35 trillion tax cut
* gave working American's $100 billion stimulus tax cut
* largest increases in military spending since Reagan (14+% in 2003 budget)
* signed two military two pay raises; increased medical/housing benefits
* threw out the Kyoto protocol
* disposed of the ABM Treaty
* pro-life, anti-abortion President
* publicly called for a right to life amendment to US Constitution
* eliminated taxpayer funding of overseas abortions
* has openly and strongly supported Taiwan
* designated N.Korea, Iran and Iraq, the Axis of Evil
* secured initial funding for a NMDS (SDI)
* promoted increases for off shore oil drilling
* strongly advocates drilling in ANWR
* pushed for building more nuclear power plants
* advocates reducing US dependency on oil imports
* repealed/froze many last minute Clinton EO`s
* proposed partial privatization of Social Security
* offered faith-based alternatives to traditional welfare
* stopped gov't funding for further destruction of human embryo's
* nominated conservative judges to the federal bench
* recognized 2ND amendment/RKBA as individual right, fully constitutional
* told Cuba/Castro trade embargo stays
* turned Russia into a strategic partner of the USA
* returned honor, dignity and trust to the Presidency
* And all while doing an outstanding/remarkable job, leading America in the war on terrorism

So you know what putupon......I think he's doing A-OK considering the log-jam in the Senate. Now..how about we let this thread go back to what it is intended for. You had your say....and I had mine. I won't respond again...so if you feel the need to have the last word...go for it.

[Grampa Dave]

Thanks for posting this excellent article.

It appears that for the first time we are about to have some debates on forestry management based on reality like the massive burning of Oregon this summer and last year.

The half baked fire science and zero logging of the Watermelons has come close to destroying a large part of Oregon and its economy.

It is time for common sense and reality to get into the management of the forests.

The no roads, no logging even of dead trees and no brush removal Druidism is costing Oregon and this country too much money and endangering too many lives.

The greens are the biggest liars of the past century, and it is time to reduce their power of life and death over those us who don't live in a Goron inner city.

[justshe]

Kevin Mannix is the Republican candidate for governor here in Oregon. I haven't heard if he will be part of the entourage meeting with President Bush, have you? Lars is VERY much behind Mannix....who, a week before the primaries, was polling in almost last place. He's a GOOD guy!

[rintense]

Can't wait to hear little Tommy weasel his way out of this one.

[Grampa Dave]

If he is a conservative, I hope that he is at Medford or will be in Portland for the fund raiser.

I know nothing about the guy. Which is not surprising as how the lefty media in Oregon controls what is printed or seen on tv in Oregon.

[TADSLOS]

President Bush sets the example

[EBUCK]

Kitzhaber has led an effort by the Western Governors' Association to address wildfire threats across the West.

After how many years of screwing us on the issue? Appearantly not running for gubnor has cleared his mind. Or perhaps it's the spectre of looking for work in a private sector filled to the brim with out of work loggers that has changed his tune.

EBUCK

[Grampa Dave]

Da$$hole the whining weasel (weasels are part of the rodent family, aren't they?) will have some cover and excuse.

Some of his biggest financial and vote givers are the greens in his state and out of the state.

Wouldn't you like to see a law passed by congress that if a non profit donates money to a political candidate or political party, they immediately lose their non profit status. I have the feeling that these left wing non profits are the biggest money laundering machines the rats have.

If you have reached your limit to a Rat candidate, you give 200,000 $'s to Greens Who Hate America and note that you wish that you could give more to Tommy Da$$hole. So the Greens Who Hate America take their 25% finders fee and donate the rest to Tommy Da$$hole. Shazam, you have by passed the limits, donated to the Greens Who Hate America for a nice tax right off, and Tommy Da$$hole gets a nice donation from the Greens Who Hate America.