Gulf war figures question Iraq plan: Schwarzkopf says U.S. needs a coalition

MSNBC ^ | August 16, 2002 | MNSBC

[Naplm]

The images of Sept 11th burned into my mind is all that is needed to justify Sadamms overthrow, anyone with any sense would not wait for another horrific event to happen to respond, cut this bastard off at the knees before he takes one American life.
I was 0311 in the 1st Marines in 90-91 / SW Asia and I have a son leaving for MC bootcamp in Jan 03, so I do have a dog in this fight. Semper Fi!

[VaBthang4]

I was an 0331 in the 2ndMarDiv around the same time frame.
SW Asia as well.

[Always A Marine]

"...there's no more deader fish than retired generals... They may be revered, admired, honored and listened to politely, but it's always the leaders in the catbird seats that do the filtering and deciding... Only time will tell if the two retirees hearing back-door military scuttlebutt are correct or not. I put my pesos on Mssrs. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and those who know daily the complete picture of what's going on.

Sorry I missed your post, Leni. I have to disagree about retired generals -- especially the highest ranking ones. Many -- like Schwarzkopf and Scowcroft and most of the Joint Chiefs and CINCs -- never leave the loop. They remain as paid and unpaid consultants and confidants, with security clearances and access. In situations like this one, they serve their successors by sounding off on important matters about which active officers cannot speak openly.

[demlosers]

All right...I'll cut him some slack...he isnt an idiot...but he is close to being a bafoon.

Well, Saddam and his generals were a bigger buffoon during the war. They left their right flank totally exposed, letting McCaffrey 24th Infantry do an easy end run, cutting off the main highway from Kuwait to Iraq.

[surely_you_jest]

Have to agree. In the Air Force at least, until I retired less than two years ago, retired senior general officers were periodically brought into "the building" (the Pentagon) and given briefings on what was going on, why it was going on, what was going to go on, and why it was going to go on.

I assume, but do not know, that it was the same with the other services.

After reading this thread, I find myself wondering whether it is not at least possible that these two gentlemen, who are no fools, are not part and parcel of a larger campaign of using the press to sow confusion amongst the enemy.

[Always A Marine]

"...I didnt see Ike or even Patton for that matter, acting like Schwarzkopf."

As if you knew Ike or Patton.

I'm sure you were one hell of a machinegunner, but hardly in a position to judge the tactical performances of MajGen Keys and LtGen Boomer or the strategic performance of Gen Schwarzkopf. Those jobs are a lot more complicated and difficult than most people can imagine. I don't mean to be condescending, either; those men reached the top, and are far better officers than I ever dreamed of being.

[Naplm]

Gen.AL Haig says there needs to be a regime change, all due respect to Gen.Schwarzkopf, these are different times than a decade ago. A few realities and vulnerbilities were exposed on 9-11. Freedom has it's price, as for logistics for fighting a war w/o the Soudi's,... puh-leez. As for world oppinion of the US going at it against their blessing,... oh-well, Our security is first and foremost, I admire the President for keeping our security FIRST.
Sometimes you just have to be undiplomatic and push on.

[Stentor]

I'll take my re-education with grace. Thanks.(;>)

[ImpBill]

It will be interesting to watch the "faithful" turn on Stormin Norman. Nobody wants to expire Arabs more than I around here but I value General Schwarzkopf's opinions.

[Naplm]

sure seems like the condescending started when you realized
he was a 0331 and enlisted, ...sir..

[demlosers]

As soon as the upcoming elections are over....that's when the Liberals will really start to spin it.

That fits into my prediction when the invasion takes place. One week or 2 weeks after the elections, doesn't give the Dems a lot of spin time, and that's when the weather is cooler. November 12th the date give or take a few days.

[Always A Marine]

"...as for logistics for fighting a war w/o the Soudi's,... puh-leez."

It's not just a matter of the Saudis, but the lack of any logistics base in the Gulf. While some believe in military magic, there is no way to deploy and sustain a large land force ashore in Iraq without a major logistical base nearby -- and Turkey is too far. If we decide to attack, this is an obstacle which must be overcome. Look for Uncle Sugar to spend billions bribing Gulf sheiks for basing rights...

[The Vast Right Wing]

While I do have some concerns about bringing democracy to a country that might elect Taliban types, the same could have been said about Germany and Japan. In the end, what we did was not just defeat them on the field of battle but destroy the culture that brought rise to Nazism and Imperial Japan. I think the same needs to be done to Islamofascism, it needs to be destroyed, these societies need to be destroyed and rebuilt with our ever watchful eye. It will take quite some time.

[Naplm]

you ,as well as I know Uncle Sugar has the millions to bribe them, seems the President and Rummy covered the logistics for the Afghan campaign pretty well, heck we even stationed troops and planes in some former Soviet republics, I'm not too eager to sell these folks short.

[Naplm]

Heck, the history channel made it look easy, the armed forces fought and took the beach, we used it for stageing.
It was dirty work, sometimes bloody, hell, why we sustaining such a large maritime prepositioning force for if we can't expect to use it for waging war?

[Always A Marine]

"sure seems like the condescending started when you realized he was a 0331 and enlisted"

Absolutely not intended, and I apologize for sounding that way. I am a Mustanger, formerly an 0311.

What I intended to argue was that there seems to be little understanding of the complexity of Schwarzkopf's job as CINCCENT. His force was an invited guest in Saudi Arabia, held together by a tenuous combination of the most unlikely allies. He managed to execute a brilliant campaign, employing Joint and Combined forces with surprisingly little interservice or cross-allied bickering. President Bush-41, SecDef Cheney and JCS Chairman Powell shielded his field forces from too much snooping by the press, but in return required Schwarzkopf to face them daily with elaborate briefings. He was not the Second Coming or without flaws, but I believe he did pretty damned well. That's all.

Semper Fidelis...

[Always A Marine]

The Afghan campaign required only a penny-ante footprint which was (and is) sustained by airlift. A large force in Iraq -- especially one including heavy armored formations -- will require a major buildup ashore in close proximity to the battle area. Logistics will be sustained by sea, but must be delivered overland. My point is that we'll have to have a land base in the Gulf; think tens of billions for the bribes.

[pankot]

You are so right. Exactly what the RATS and the media are doing.

[Naplm]

I respect the Gen. and agree he had a tough job to do, that said, like most freepers, my TV is on the newschannels 24/7 and there seems to be more than a few retirees putting forth the case for a pre-emptive strike.
I have a feeling some of it is out there is for Iraqi consumption.

[Always A Marine]

"Heck, the history channel made it look easy, the armed forces fought and took the beach, we used it for stageing."

We had a huge amphibious force back then. The Gator Navy has since shrunk to the point that we can no longer risk a large-scale forcible entry from the sea. We just don't have the ships anymore, so the strategy has shifted to Maritime Prepositioned Forces aboard specialized commercial ships.

"...why we sustaining such a large maritime prepositioning force for if we can't expect to use it for waging war?"

The use of Maritime Prepositioned Forces assumes a benign (or "admin") environment, since MPS ships are sitting ducks during offload. MPF are not an option for forcible entry, which can only be accomplished by Amphibious forces. This is why we must secure a friendly base nearby before launching any major offensive.