Linux users march on city hall (my title: Che Guevara to be raised from the dead)

CNET News.com ^ | August 15, 2002, 3:53 PM PT | Lisa M. Bowman

[Don Joe]

Heheheheh, someone needs to slap that image into every thread where some dinkus tinkles something about "did you know Bill Gates is an athiest?"

[Bush2000]

Dude, I dig your cut-and-paste job. But we've gotta talk about some Photoshop basics ... ;-)

[Don Joe]

I've met some of those type guys in real life -- that's how they really look! :)

[BlazingArizona]

How about a simpler approach: License the freakin' drivers for Linux from the MPAA and play your DVDs. But ... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ... you've gotta be drama queens ...

Just one problem: MPAA/RIAA insists on region encoding as part of the standard. We don't accept that, and will go on hacking our DVD players and buying the backstreet Asian models that don't have this "feature" until RIAA goes broke.

[Don Joe]

"Just one problem: MPAA/RIAA insists on region encoding as part of the standard. We don't accept that, and will go on hacking our DVD players and buying the backstreet Asian models that don't have this 'feature' until RIAA goes broke."

I hear ya man. All the bastard grocers around here pull the same sh!t with their food sales. Well to hell with their policies. I'll just keep stealing it, until they either come to their senses and start giving it away, or go broke.

It's for the people, after all.

[AaronAnderson]

How do you build a better mouse trap if you cannot find out how a mouse trap works? If a corporation did it, it would be patent infringment with a slap on the wrist. If a person does it, it is cyber terrorism with manadatory prison sentences. Why should corporations enjoy more freedom than citizens?

[Don Joe]

"If a corporation did it, it would be patent infringment with a slap on the wrist. If a person does it, it is cyber terrorism with manadatory prison sentences. Why should corporations enjoy more freedom than citizens?"

Do you really believe that crap, or are you just typing out of your copy of the Communist Manifesto?

A "slap on the wrist"? Oh, there go my damn sides again!

[AaronAnderson]

Hardly pathetic. Your goals match line-by-line... nationalization of private property, redistribution of wealth, united Bolsheviks striving against corporate oppression, etc, etc. You're rubbing elbows with Marx, dood!

How does this differ from m$ licensing 6.0, where you do not own any m$ products but only borrow them by the grace of m$, m$ can freely monitor/take your information without consent, effectively giving them complete control over all your information, and lobbying congress to enforce crap laws like the DMCA to prevent people from finding out how bad their products are and creating better ones.

Read the contitution, it says we the people, not we the corporations. IP laws are a compromise between the people and businesses; the people will grant companies exclusive rights to a work preventing someone else who may have produced the same work from capitalizing on it in return for future inovations and enhancements from the business. Corporations would love to lock all IP down and make sure no one knows how their product works so they would not have to innovate to stay competitive and lay back and collect royalties. If corporations don't hold up their end of the bargain and screw consumers, than turn about is fair play. I don't want big brother or big bill in my house, they are both unwelcome.

[NovemberCharlie]

I hear ya man. All the bastard grocers around here pull the same sh!t with their food sales. Well to hell with their policies. I'll just keep stealing it, until they either come to their senses and start giving it away, or go broke.

If I buy a DVD off eBay from Japan, I fail to see why it's a crime to want to be able to play it in America.

[AaronAnderson]

it sure ain't a prison sentence, just a cash payment from the pockets of the stock holders. Billions of dollars have been stolen by corporate thieves but few if any will ever be punished for it, let alone sent to prison for it. However, if Don Joe reverse engineers a bad encryption code to let consumers enjoy their copies of The Last Action hero on Linux, their prefered operating system, Joe goes up the river for years. Of course, Don Joe believes we need to go back to the robber barron period where consumer rights were non existant and the trusts ruled the market, so I am sure this point will be lost on him.

[Bush2000]

How does this differ from m$ licensing 6.0, where you do not own any m$ products but only borrow them by the grace of m$, m$ can freely monitor/take your information without consent, effectively giving them complete control over all your information, and lobbying congress to enforce crap laws like the DMCA to prevent people from finding out how bad their products are and creating better ones.

Geez, talk about run-on sentences. Wipe away the drool. Let's address your points. MS products are the private property of MS. They invested in them. They paid salaries to engineers and testers and product designers. Not you. They offer those products with certain conditions and restrictions -- in pretty much the same way that many other products have conditions and restrictions. (I don't see any contradictions of capitalism yet).

If you don't like the license agreement, don't use the product! It's as simple as that. Nobody is forcing you to use them. But the thing here is that you don't have any intention of using the products. You're using this little forum to prop up your ranting soapbox diatribes against MS.

Read the contitution, it says we the people, not we the corporations. IP laws are a compromise between the people and businesses; the people will grant companies exclusive rights to a work preventing someone else who may have produced the same work from capitalizing on it in return for future inovations and enhancements from the business. Corporations would love to lock all IP down and make sure no one knows how their product works so they would not have to innovate to stay competitive and lay back and collect royalties. If corporations don't hold up their end of the bargain and screw consumers, than turn about is fair play. I don't want big brother or big bill in my house, they are both unwelcome.

It's rather hypocritical for you to offer up the Constitution as validation for your point of view and then rip it up like a ragged cloth when it doesn't suit your purposes. The Constitution clearly recognizes the concept of intellectual property. This isn't new. Patents aren't new. But they certainly are inconvenient concepts for those who want to shred the Constitution because it happens to conflict with their world view; namely, that they should be able to rip off private property from the "evil corporations". Sorry, like it or not, DMCA is Constitutional until the USSC says it ain't. Go fish.

[Bush2000]

If I buy a DVD off eBay from Japan, I fail to see why it's a crime to want to be able to play it in America.

It's not a crime to want to play it in America. What ever gave you that impression?

[NovemberCharlie]

I misspoke. The point is, the DVD player will not play a legally purchased disc.

[AaronAnderson]

MS products are the private property of MS. They invested in them. They paid salaries to engineers and testers and product designers. Not you. They offer those products with certain conditions and restrictions -- in pretty much the same way that many other products have conditions and restrictions. (I don't see any contradictions of capitalism yet).

This license states that you are not buying a product, something that you posess, but a service. This service comes with a license that says m$ can do whatever they want with your computer and data, and you have no recourse if they botch something up, deliberate or not. This flys in the face of consumer protection and consumer rights. If I want to play a WB DVD in a panisonic DVD player, even though WB is a partner with sony and has signed an exclusive DVD player deal with them, as a consumer I should be able to do it since I purchased the intellectual property. I shouldn't have have to consult a lawyer everytime I install a piece of software to make sure I don't break some obscure clause stating I can only run the software on tuesdays because that is Andy Griffith's favorite day. Software should be treated as any other intellectual property, such as a book, where one can do anything they want with it except reproduce it. I mean, one can even <*gasp*> quote from it using the fair use clause. How much fair use do you think we will ever see from any m$ product?

If you don't like the license agreement, don't use the product! It's as simple as that. Nobody is forcing you to use them. But the thing here is that you don't have any intention of using the products. You're using this little forum to prop up your ranting soapbox diatribes against MS.

Yeah, you are right, I will never buy any of their products and avoid using them as much as possible. However, I have never be swindled by a con man who sells $5,000 dance lessons to elderly old women but I still believe that consumers should be protected from them. Yes, the snake oil salesmen could turn quite a profit if left to their own devices, but the consumer has rights (what a concept) and they deserve to be protected.

It's rather hypocritical for you to offer up the Constitution as validation for your point of view and then rip it up like a ragged cloth when it doesn't suit your purposes. The Constitution clearly recognizes the concept of intellectual property. This isn't new. Patents aren't new. But they certainly are inconvenient concepts for those who want to shred the Constitution because it happens to conflict with their world view; namely, that they should be able to rip off private property from the "evil corporations". Sorry, like it or not, DMCA is Constitutional until the USSC says it ain't. Go fish.

I have <*never*> contested that IP should not be protected or that all IP should be somehow socialized. I am however completely against the idea that companies somehow have the right to control usage of their product once somebody buys it in the marketplace. If I go to barns and nobles and buy a book, I can take it home and read it, throw it away, burn it, use it for toilet paper, read it to friends, borrow it to friends, etc. Now imagine that random house emplaces the same legalistic EULA's like m$'s so I when I take the book home I have to read the first 100 pages which is the license. Then I must abide by the rule that I must read the book every night for ten minutes before I go to bed or the Feds will come in and confiscate all my books because I broke the EULA. Or Imagine I "buy" a toyota camry (in the future you do not own anything, you only lease items or property from companies) and as I cross the california state line the car suddenly dies and and message pops up on the dashboard saying that toyota is in a contract dispute with the california government so all toyota cars will not function within it's boarders.

The difference between you and me is that I don't believe corporate ownership and manipulation of a product beyond the point of sale is good for the consumer. I don't see that corporate ownership of everything is any better than the government ownership of everything. I believe that if you buy a product, you own it, you just don't have the right to reproduce and sell it. Our IP system has worked fine for two hundred years with a balance of ownership and fair use, heck we even have a library of congress that contains an enormous amount of information. Will we ever see software stored there? The current extortion of the laws regarding digital media only hinders innovation through legislation and only aids corporations and not the consumer.

[Don Joe]

Read the contitution, it says we the people, not we the corporations. IP laws are a compromise between the people and businesses; the people will grant companies exclusive rights to a work preventing someone else who may have produced the same work from capitalizing on it in return for future inovations and enhancements from the business. Corporations would love to lock all IP down and make sure no one knows how their product works so they would not have to innovate to stay competitive and lay back and collect royalties. If corporations don't hold up their end of the bargain and screw consumers, than turn about is fair play. I don't want big brother or big bill in my house, they are both unwelcome."

Yo, Ralphie!

I hear they're gonna bring back the Corvair.

Boo!

Hey, I had ya goin' there for a minute, didn't I, ah ha ha ha ha ha!!!!

Just kidding. Your tripe is far far far to the left of anything Nader ever puked up. You sound like an aircheck tape from a Pacifica station.

[Don Joe]

"If I buy a DVD off eBay from Japan, I fail to see why it's a crime to want to be able to play it in America."

OK, thanks for being up-front and honest about your inability to understand this arguably complex concept.

I'll type reaaaaal slow for ya: it's a crime because it's illegal.

Now go take off the day.

[Don Joe]

"it sure ain't a prison sentence, just a cash payment from the pockets of the stock holders. Billions of dollars have been stolen by corporate thieves but few if any will ever be punished for it, let alone sent to prison for it. However, if Don Joe reverse engineers a bad encryption code to let consumers enjoy their copies of The Last Action hero on Linux, their prefered operating system, Joe goes up the river for years. Of course, Don Joe believes we need to go back to the robber barron period where consumer rights were non existant and the trusts ruled the market, so I am sure this point will be lost on him."

More communist agitprop.

Shouldn't you be getting into the bodypaint and crazyman costume to go protest a WTO meeting?

[Don Joe]

"The difference between you and me is that I don't believe corporate ownership and manipulation of a product beyond the point of sale is good for the consumer."

Totally immaterial to the argument at hand. You do not "buy" software (unless you're talking about a scenario where you pay me to write you some code under "work for hire" conditions), and you never have "bought" software. You are buying restricted rights to use it.

Get that through your thick liberskull!

[dheretic]

Your goals match line-by-line... nationalization of private property, redistribution of wealth, united Bolsheviks striving against corporate oppression, etc, etc.

This coming from a Bush supporter, a republican president whose peacetime spending has outstripped Clinton's. Go be a compassionate conservative with someone else's rights.

[dheretic]

Do you really believe that crap, or are you just typing out of your copy of the Communist Manifesto?

People like you are the reason why few intelligent people take the threat of Communism seriously. You see Communists under every rock, in every tree and around every corner. It never occurs to people like you that the fight of Capitalism versus Communism is irrelevant. It has always been a fight between liberalism and authoritarianism. Most people lean toward the latter, not the former. Your corporation-worship puts you squarely into the latter. Every institution in society must be held to the same ethical standards. Corporations exist because the states allow them to. They are a way of getting around the idea of the owners *gasp* actually being accountable for the actions of their companies.