MBA may not be worth investment

The Digital Collegian (Penn State) ^ | Monday, July 29, 2002 | Evan Miller

[Willie Green]

There was a time when Academic Institutions maintained high educational standards, and an MBA truly represented an achievement level of high value.
Sadly, diploma mills recognized the revenue potential of such a degree, and turned to low-quality, mass-production techniques in pursuit of their own financial gain. The result is that we, as a nation, are encumbered with a massive swarm of incompetents whose only skills are pushing paper and boogering corporate accounting systems.

[Cacophonous]

I think it may be more than a case of the business schools turning out ill-educated graduates. I would even go so far as to say that they are teaching them bad business.

Anyone with a brain and the ability to reason could see the false bubble of the economic boom of the '90s. People were pouring money into businesses that had nothing and did nothing, and none of these business geniuses seemed concerned. And now they are paying for it.

Excellent post. Thank you.

[Redbob]

Notice how Assistant Dean Wheeler's response focused on the prestige of having a degree from a "name" school, rather than on any educational benefits from completing the degree program?

[Willie Green]

I would even go so far as to say that they are teaching them bad business.

Excellent point.

It has long been recognized that our Insititutions of "Higher" Education have become pestilent bastions of liberal, socialist mediocrity.

[CatoRenasci]

Whether there is signficant value to an MBA depends largely on where one goes for the degree, and what use one puts it to. An MBA with top grades from one of the top dozen or so schools can land one an otherwise probably unobtainable position in financial services or consulting, opening the possiblity of creating signficant wealth. An MBA with average or below average grades from a no-name school will not even get one a promotion in an existing job.

[RightWhale]

The MBA is nothing more than the key to open certain doors. What happens after that is up to the MBA holder. MBA is one of the easy master's degrees in many universities, so it might attract some less-able students now and then who won't do all that well once they are on their own. There are tough business schools, too, and that is a different story.

[Willie Green]

An MBA with top grades from one of the top dozen or so schools can land one an otherwise probably unobtainable position in financial services or consulting, opening the possiblity of creating signficant wealth.

Most MBA salaries are classified as "fixed or variable overhead" or "burden". They are non-productive labor and add no wealth-creating value to the production process.

[Cacophonous]

It has long been recognized that our Insititutions of "Higher" Education have become pestilent bastions of liberal, socialist mediocrity.

That's exactly right, but socialism is being taught in the guise of "pure" capitalism, as if capitalism were all about "getting all you can, while you can". Which is distinctively not capitalism, or at least it's not responsible capitalism.

Once corporations start to act this way, they stop at nothing--buying votes, buying officials, cooking books, etc. At this point, since they have the government in their pockets, any distinction between them and the government becomes blurred.

Because their goals are "get all they can, while they can", they have no particular loyalties, except to their short term bottom lines. They have no loyalty to their stockholders, or their customers, or, most tragically, their country.

[BluH2o]

Any MBA earned immediately after undergraduate studies are completed ... is a waste. Most good MBA programs require a minimum of 3 to 5 years in the real work-a-day business environment, before enrollment in a MBA program. The ideal MBA candidate, who stands to benefit most, should be around age 30 ... with a minimum of five years practical business experience behind them before going on for their MBA.

[Cacophonous]

I got a little sidetracked on another rant and did not complete my first point:

...socialism is being taught in the guise of "pure" capitalism, as if capitalism were all about "getting all you can, while you can"...any distinction between them and the government becomes blurred.

The point I am trying to make here is that when corporations can control the government, and force the government to put controls on the means of production and distribution, you have socialism. Or maybe a wierd variant of fascism...not that the distinction is that large. Whether the ultimate string-holders are corporations that care only for their bottom lines, or a government that cares only to retain power, is irrelevant.

[Willie Green]

The point I am trying to make here is that when corporations can control the government, and force the government to put controls on the means of production and distribution, you have socialism. Or maybe a wierd variant of fascism...not that the distinction is that large.

IMHO, the actual mechanism is more subtle and convoluted. Corporations "go with the flow" and follow the path of least resistance and minimum cost. They've essentially conceded any form of direct socialism the government wishes to impose upon the American people, so long as they can import goods to our market unimpeded by any of the socialist millstones hung on the neck of American-based production.

[Willie Green]

Corporations "go with the flow" and follow the path of least resistance and minimum cost.

Make that "minimum short-term cost".
Long-term, corporate myopia is going to cost an arm and a leg.

[Agamemnon]

Any MBA earned immediately after undergraduate studies are completed ... is a waste. Most good MBA programs require a minimum of 3 to 5 years in the real work-a-day business environment, before enrollment in a MBA program. The ideal MBA candidate, who stands to benefit most, should be around age 30 ... with a minimum of five years practical business experience behind them before going on for their MBA.

This is the correct take, not "Willie Green's." An MBA can't teach you how to be a business man but formalizes a course of study. It is a paricularly valuable career-enhancing educational tool when it is paired with another discipline which is outside of what is is termed "business" (e.g., science disciplines of all types). It speaks to an ability of someone to differentiate their tought processes, in order to develop a multifaceted approach to more complicated problems.

All the more reason to do as BluH20 describes by taking a hiatus from formal scholastic pursuits to get your feet wet in the real business world, then enroll in an MBA course...hopefully while still employed.

[BureaucratusMaximus]

EVERY person that I have met with an MBA...could not, I repeat: could not effectively think for themself, use common sense, or come to any kind of conclusion in a logical manner.

[Willie Green]

This is the correct take, not "Willie Green's."

The respective points being made are not mutually exclusive as you seem to imply. They are comments on different facets of the situation, capable of coexistance with both perspectives being "correct".

[Taliesan]

The ideal MBA candidate, who stands to benefit most, should be around age 30 ... with a minimum of five years practical business experience behind them before going on for their MBA.

Agree. Many of these older folks are identified by their companies as people who are on the promotion track.

I did my MBA in a group of 21 people, at a public university. All of us were older students, and all but 1 or 2 had our expenses paid by our employers.

The degree did help my earnings significantly, as I am sure it did for most of my cohort.

[LouD]

EVERY person that I have met with an MBA...could not, I repeat: could not effectively think for themself, use common sense, or come to any kind of conclusion in a logical manner.

I don't know about that. For example, I'm drawing some logical conclusions about you right now.

[BureaucratusMaximus]

I don't know about that. For example, I'm drawing some logical conclusions about you right now.

Perfect...sounds like your management material.

[1Old Pro]

EVERY person that I have met with an MBA...could not, I repeat: could not effectively think for themself, use common sense, or come to any kind of conclusion in a logical manner.

I'm not at all impressed with the people I've known with an MBA. Practical business experience is worth far more

[AmericanInTokyo]

A few exceptions to what you say, but by and large, your observation is more than correct. Lack of experience (crisis management, reading people, motivating them) is what counts at the end of the day, rather than book knowledge which can be merely academic and abstract, at best.