SAN DIEGO ALERT!! Oak Park Children Kept Inside After Abduction Attempt. (Related to Van Dam Case?)

Union Tribune ^ | July 18, 2002 | Deborah Ensor

[Defiant]

FDA--

See post 36. If you are not "accusing" the Van Dams of killing their daughter, then what is the point of the post asking where Damon was when Samantha was kidnapped? What is the point of posting song parodies with lyrics like "Damon's Got a Gun"?

If he did kill his daughter, then he deserves all the scorn and parody heaped on him, and if you believe that he did kill his daughter, then your posts could be understood. But....if you are "not accusing" Damon of killing his daughter then:

1. You believe Westerfield is innocent.
2. You know that the Van Dams have lost their daughter.
3. You are not alleging, I guess because you don't believe, that the Van Dams are the ones who killed their daughter.
4. You know that if the Van Dams were not involved, and see their names associated with accusations that they WERE involved, it will only compound the pain they have suffered from losing their daughter.
5. Yet, you continue to, day after day, hour after hour, post songs and messages that imply that the Van Dams were involved in the death-- not negligent, but actually involved.
So, are you now saying that you do not believe the Van Dams were involved in the death of their daughter? If so, why do you continue to compound their pain? Can't you support Westerfield, and question the evidence, without accusing the Van Dams of the hideous murder of their daughter?

Think about the points I am making, and perhaps consider changing your style of support for Westerfield.

[FresnoDA]

The VD's applied salves toward their pain, with the alleged purchase of BMW roadster, held a RAVE PARTY, shopping for expensive new homes....contrast that with the abject grief demonstrated by little Samantha's mom...and you get quite a different picture...I suppose it is hard to see through VDA glasses however....

[FresnoDA]

WHAT IS A CYBERSLEUTHsleuth·hound   Pronunciation Key  (slthhound)
n.

1. A dog used for tracking or pursuing, such as a bloodhound. Also called sleuth.
2. A detective.

---

Most on the net are simply foisting comments and opinions...based upon either news articles, radio interviews, court transcripts...

And then they put their personal "spin" on such information.

The reason that the VD case has continued to remain in the public eye, IMO..is the blatant outrageousness of the story...

SELF ADMITTED SWINGERS, who invite strangers back to their home, where adolescent children reside, for (alleged) sexual encounters puts said children at a higher risk...as the FBI and LE sighted in their warnings yesterday.....

Are they involved, further???

We may never know....

It is a fact, the San Diego Police cleared them as suspects very early in the investigation...so, there you go....

SAM-I-AM!!!

[Jaded]

No, probably not, Kimmie. However, the Washington boys are a little ticked off at the local FBI for saying Serial Killer so quickly. News at 5.

[ItsOurTimeNow]

lol...the Van Dams defamed themselves openly and willingly on national TV. Anything we do or say cannot tarnish their "glimmering" reputation.

[Freedom2specul8]

Let's see, the suspect's lifestyle hasn't been so nice either correct? YOu remember all that has been revealed, without help of the leak.

Spec, bringing to the new thread..

You wrote: "God help these idiots who are framing DW...and he IS being framed. "

And you believe this because???

[Defiant]

You'd win that case, demsux. Truth is an absolute defense to a statement of fact, and opinion is protected by the First Amendment. As persons who thrust themselves into the limelight, they'd probably have to prove "actual malice" in order to prevail.

Not only that, but, to determine the damage sustained in a defamation case, you are entitled to examine the reputation of the plaintiff, and how it was affected by the libelous statement. As a result, as you suggest, you would be entitled to bring in all kinds of character witnesses and witnesses to their conduct, to determine the issue of their "reputation".

Notwithstanding that, if they walked into my office, and I could determine that one of the posters who is accusing them of killing their daughter had significant assets, I would take that case. First, I'd try to find a group of 5 or 10 defendants, to make sure that there was a big pool of defendants with assets. I'd identify the ones who said and posted the most vile things about the Van Dams, the kind of statements that would make a jury angry, after DW is convicted and sitting in jail, and his suppressed statements become publicly known.

In discovery, I'd develop all the evidence I could about the "actual malice" of the defendants. Did they know, or have reason to know, of the pain it would cause the parents to be accused of her death, for example. Did they know the defendant, or people close to him, and write these things for the purpose of influence public perceptions? And so on. The case would get past the summary judgment stage, meaning it would go to trial and a jury. Defendants with assets and/or insurance coverage (insurance does not cover intentional torts, but does provide a defense when the tort has not been proven yet), would be likely to settle. Those that don't will have to take their chances in front of a San Diego jury with some pretty horrid words ringing in the jury's ears.

Yes, the jury would hear about their sordid lifestyle. But everyone knows about it already, and I think they could get past it and consider the distinction between your reputation for sexual oddity, and your reputation for being involved in the death of your daughter. When they got to talk about damages, Brenda would be a pretty sympathetic witness, crying about the loss of her daughter, while talking about the pain it caused her to be accused of complicity in the death. I think a jury could get angry. Because it is an intentional tort, punitive damages would be available.

Yup, I'd take that case on contingency in a heartbeat.

[Freedom2specul8]

"SELF ADMITTED SWINGERS, who invite strangers back to their home, where adolescent children reside, for (alleged) sexual encounters puts said children at a higher risk...as the FBI and LE sighted in their warnings yesterday..... "

They have not admitted to being swingers..they said in a news interview that it was rumors ...or did you forget that?
http://video.uniontrib.com/news/metro/danielle/20020208-9999_1n8vandam.html
Parents believe daughter taken while they slept
February 8, 2002

"On top of dealing with a missing child, the van Dams are the subject of rumors that they are involved in a swinging club, where couples typically engage in sex with other couples. "This is in no way related to the investigation," Brenda van Dam said. "Nothing would get in between me checking on my children. It's a rumor. I don't know why people would want to be hurtful." "

http://video.uniontrib.com/news/metro/danielle/20020210-9999_1n10search.html
February 10, 2002
The van Dams urged everyone to focus on the search for their daughter and not on "distractions," such as rumors about their private life

They also have not admitted to bringing home strangers...you and the defense have not been able to prove that brenda was anything but a loudmouth, drunken flirt that friday night. (the 22 yr old dude could have been naive enough to believe her..WHO KNOWS!!)

[demsux]

Let's see, the suspect's lifestyle hasn't been so nice either correct?

Actually, there is "no comparison" between the lifestyle's of the VD's and DW.

The "only" questionable activities that I have heard about with regard to DW is drinking (and we KNOW that the VD's drink) and the "child porn" (which #1 has not been "proven" to be "child porn and #2 was likely downloaded by DW's son).

Now what to we KNOW about the VD's lifestyle:

Engage in "wife swapping".

Do drugs

Drink

Leave adolescent kids at home alone and at the mall

Invite total strangers back to their home from Dad's

At a bear minimum, these FACTS indicate NEGLIGENT parenting and should be considered as such. The remaining boys are living in a decedant household and should be removed ASAP.

[Politicalmom]

They testified that they "swapped", which is the definition of swinging.

Man, you are just desperate to protect the VDs. You keep saying you think their "lifestyle" is disgusting, then you come back with a post like this.

Bizarre.

[ItsOurTimeNow]

Kim,

Did you miss Denise Kemals entire testimony about wife-swapping?

[Politicalmom]

I assume you mean "PRE-adolescent" children.

The oldest is nine.

[demsux]

They have not admitted to being swingers

What do you call Andy Kemal having sex with Brenda Van Dam while Denise Kemal has sex with Damon Van Dam, as per the testimony of Denise???

And don't get too Clintonesque with the difference between swapping and swinging.

[Jaded]

This has been asked a thousand times before and never answered yet. So we'll try again. I'm sure there are plenty here to come up with "theory".

Using the time line testified to in court come up with a theory on how this crime was committed and the body dumped at Dehesa.

1:45-1:54 Open Door
3:00-3:59 Open Door (Damon's testimony 3: something he couldn't tell exactly could be 3 to 4 AM)
7:00 DW went to High Valley

What did he do with her?
When did he kill her?
How did he move her around?
Why are there fibers in some places but no others?
Why is there unID'ed DNA & Prints?
Why is there NO David Westerfield DNA in the VD house or scent for that matter?
How did he accomplish this while being in the house over an hour?
Why did the dogs NOT hit inside the house or RV?

[Freedom2specul8]

I honestly believe that you are not understanding.. Yes, you are correct, they "swapped" with friends...not strangers and that is a big difference..from the allegations presented by so many. Of course I detest the lifestyle..tell me, if you thought someone who lived a terrible lifestyle were not guilty of murdering their child...would you want them in jail?

[MizSterious]

"They have not admitted to being swingers."

Ok, so they're self-admitted SWAPPERS. (per Denise testimony) Big difference, I guess?

Kim, you're such a good vd apologist!

[Politicalmom]

What does that have to do with anything? I didn't say anything about jailing them for murdering their daughter. They SWING, and they DID invite strangers home. So what if she was out of her mind stoned? She DID IT, and that created an unsafe environment for her children.

I think they should be jailed for drug use, (or whatever standard punishment is), and I think the boys should be removed, due to neglect.

[FresnoDA]

YOUR POST #48 is absolutely INCREDIBLE kim....I AM STUNNED..

[Freedom2specul8]

the only clintonese tactics I have seen on a few of posts on these threads are from those who fingerpoint, accuse, slander and participate in name calling of fellow posters. It's call distract the audience, slander the opposing debater, while trying to avoid a point.

You MAY see them (admitted adulterers) as swingers...they may not see themselves as that. What if that halloween night was truly the only time? What if it wasn't the only time? Do you want them to go to jail for danielle's murder if they are innocent?

[John Jamieson]

Suspect arrested in Fresno County per MSNBC, trolling rest stops, green car, looks like drawing.