Libertarianism or Libertinism? (Frank S. Meyer Flashback)

The Potowmack Institute ^ | September 9, 1969 | Frank S. Meyer

[KC Burke]

Thank you for your personal recollections at #10. FR is one of the best places to get such insight.

[OWK]

It would appear that you have some kind of chip on your shoulder with respect to percieved anti-Catholic bias. I have no idea what conversations you've engaged in previously on the subject (and quite frankly I have no interest in them).

My point had nothing to do with Catholicism. It had to do with ritual cannibalism (which is practiced ceremonially by not only Catholics, but in fact by many, or perhaps even the majority of Christian sects).

If you find it necessary to extract some kind of anti-Catholic sentiment from my statements in order to paint yourself as a victim, that's your problem.

No such sentiment was intended.

[Hacksaw]

No such sentiment was intended.

Oh, Please. You can do a bit better than that.

[OWK]

Man... what a bunch of whiners.

[secretagent]

Catholics don't practice ritual cannibalism, they practice ritual metaphorical cannibalism.

They only symbolically consume the body and blood of Christ.

[Pyro7480]

Ok, let's drop it. He didn't call the Catholic Church the "Whore of Babylon" or something ludicrous like that. This is a doctrinal misunderstanding. This thread is supposed to be about the Meyer article...

[Pyro7480]

Oh, I forgot to add that I just ordered the Meyer biography by Smant from ISI. I can't wait for it to come in!

[OWK]

You explicitly accuse Catholics of ritual cannibalism, and then affect wide-eyed innocence when I "extract some kind of anti-Catholic sentiment from [your] statements." HeHeHe!

No, in fact I said Catholics and other Christian sects.

I did not mention Catholics exclusively.

The only reason I mentioned Catholics individually at all, is that they as a group, are more likely to endorse the doctrine of transubstantiation (the belief in the literal conversion of sacramental wine and wafers, into the blood and body of Christ).

It isn't a slam on Catholics or on what they believe. They may believe as they wish, and I support their right to practice their beliefs in any way they see fit, provided they don't violate the rights of others in the process.

You seemed to me to be slamming libertarians because you percieved them to be defending cannibalism (although I think that's a bit of a stretch). I just thought you might want to think about that statement in a different light.

Apparently it was a bit too much for you emotionally, so you had to drag out your hair shirt.

[Pyro7480]

BUMP!

[ez2muz]

"...so you had to drag out your hair shirt."

Hair Shirt? ...mind humoring me?

[T'wit]

> George Nash . . . calls Meyer "an ardent, argumentative libertarian, as well as one of the formative personal influences on the conservative revial," while others call him a "fusionist," someone who tried to reconcile the libertarian and traditionist schools of conservatism.

He was both! Frank's argumentativeness was legendary. He even argued amiably on his deathbed with his priest-confessor -- to the considerable amusement of his friends.

Fusionism was uniquely Frank's. The whole movement, so to speak, debated libertarianism vs. traditionalism. For the first five or ten years after Goldwater, the debates were often rancorous. However, Frank, the libertarian, transcended his own views (and his own feisty style) to find common ground. Traditionalist Russell Kirk, in contrast, made no effort to reconcile the two views and never had patience for libertarians. (He and Frank weren't on speaking terms, though both were columnists for National Review.)

If it's of any interest, George Nash, Morton Blackwell and George Carey have all had distinguished careers and are all still active.

[T'wit]

> Were you one of these "Young Conservatives" that visited Meyer in Woodstock?

Sure. I knew him well.

[Pyro7480]

Thanks for responding. I appreciate your insight. :-)

[OWK]

Hair Shirt: A coarse haircloth garment worn next to the skin by religious ascetics as penance.

A phrase often used today to indicate a false-pious sense of martyrdom, without justification.

[A.J.Armitage]

Catholics don't practice ritual cannibalism, they practice ritual metaphorical cannibalism. They only symbolically consume the body and blood of Christ.

Not to hear them tell it. The Catholic doctrine is that it's Jesus' actual, biological body come down from Heaven to replace the bread and wine, even though you can't notice it.

They're wrong, of course.

[secretagent]

Agree that some probably believe this, but I'd guess most "first world" Catholics don't.

I don't think most Catholics, metaphorical cannibals or "real", would agree to a test, though.

[William McKinley]

I am jealous of some of the conversations you must undoubtably have had in your lifetime