NIGHTLINE Tonight: The Big Picture (Dallas Paper to Break BIG Story on Catholic Scandal!)

ABCNEWS | June 11, 2002 | Leroy Sievers

[Chemnitz]

The Immaculate Conception is rather new as a doctrine. Jesus addressed His mother twice in the Gospel of John, calling her "woman" in both cases. Jesus is her Lord and Savior. Mary is not Mediatrix or Co-redemptrix. She is best honored with the titles and attributes given to her in God's Word.

[Dumb_Ox]

She is best honored with the titles and attributes given to her in God's Word.

Like Gabriel's name for her, "kecharitomene."

[eastsider]

The married Mennonite professor there also got into a scandal, but that was with women.

It's shocking how much the present scandal has and seared our consciences and raised the bar as to what constitutes scandalous behavior. FRegards.

[Siobhan]

Thank you for the flag. Because the Church is true in its proclamation of the Gospel of Jesus and the keeping of his holy sacraments, we Catholics are assaulted on every side. But though satan muster every force against the Church...

I WILL NOT BE MOVED.

I will stand my ground with Rosary in hand and Jesus alive in my heart.

[wontbackdown]

Posted by Aquinasfan to wontbackdown On News/Activism Jun 12 1:06 PM #209 of 225

My husband has a friend who left the Catholic seminary 30 years ago because of the rampant and blatant homosexuality he witnessed there. When he complained about it, he was treated like a troublemaker!

A year ago I would have dismissed his story. Thank God the truth is finally out, especially for men like your husband's friend.

When my husband told me the story, about 13 years ago, I didn't believe him either because it was just too incredible. His friend told him that the men all slept in bunkbeds in one large room and that every night there would be at least several men going to each other's bunks for sex. The friend was shocked and appalled, and totally unprepared for this. The fact that his complaints were dismissed and he was told to keep quiet made him lose his desire to be a priest. There was such a complete culture of homosexuality in the seminary that it would not surprise me if 90% of priests are gay! Certainly straight men are discouraged from entering the priesthood because they can't fit into the gay culture.

[Askel5]

Hesbergh opened the gates with his conferences on contraception (in exchange for foundation monies from Rockefeller and others). Big Name Catholics who attended these consciousness-raising sessions not only led the way in attacking Moynihan's report on the black family but -- even more critical -- effectively preempted any Catholic criticism of the State's plans for "War on the Poor Poverty" distributing of birth control and sanctioning of Legal Abortion as part of GOP population control strategy.

It was Hesburgh's conference attendees who -- ignoring entirely nearly a century of concerted Catholic Action in the Public Square -- got up before Congress's panels and assured the State that Catholics had no intention of imposing their "personal morality" on others by making a stink over the State's plans for population control.

It would appear you are also unfamiliar with Hesburgh's "Land of Lakes" statement.

The Catholic University of America was intended, as were all other Catholic colleges and universities, to be towers and seats of Catholic wisdom and piety. And so they were until the Land of Lakes statement of 1967 which called for independence of Catholic colleges and universities from ecclesiastical oversight and a stress on academic freedom. Coupled with this statement was the theological dissent emanating from Catholic University of America as a result of Humanae Vitae and the efforts of Father Charles Curran, a professor of moral theology there, to lead a national campaign of dissent against it.

---

the Land of Lakes Document separated Catholic colleges and universities from the Roman Catholic Church. He described how Rev. Theodore M. Hesburgh, President of the University of Notre Dame and a director of the Council on Foreign Relations, invited the Population Council (funded by the Rockefeller Foundation) to hold secret meetings on how to undermine the moral teachings of the Catholic Church in regard to contraception.

"The Population Council realized that without contraception, we (the US) would become a Catholic country."

Hesburgh arranged a meeting between Pope Paul VI and Rockefeller at which Rockefeller had the audacity to offer to write the encyclical Humanae Vitae. His offer was rejected. Fr. Hesburgh later became chairman of the Board of Trustees of the Rockefeller Foundation that supports population control and worldwide, unrestricted abortion.

[Always Right]

My guess is they will "out" the alleged homosexual Cardinal attending the conference.

When pigs fly is when NBC will run a story like that.

[ACross]

You quoted Clinton, not Bennett. Bennett is undeniably a great lawyer whose ethics have never been seriously questioned. He did nothing representing Clinton other that to mount a vigorous defense to Paula Jones' lawsuit. Bennett had nothing to do with representing Clinton during Clinton's impeachment (Kendall, Craig) It bears mentioning that Bennett and Clinton are no longer on speaking terms. It is unfair -- and dangerous -- to besmirch a man solely because he represented unattractive clients. you made a silly remark and it would behoove you to retract it.

[ACross]

I would be most curious to learn the source of the material which you cut and pasted. I especially enjoyed the reference to the Council on Foreign Relations and the conspiracy theory re: Hesburgh wishing to undermine Catholic Doctrine and to support population control.

[Askel5]

I believe that was from the Culture Wars piece ... you can find the link among the three Google returns I linked.

Dr. E. Michael Jones is extremely well researched and reliable. It's my recent read of his Libido Dominandi: Sexual Liberation and Political Control that prompted me to respond re: Hesburgh and Notre Dame.

I thought I was reasonably knowledgeable but all of that was news to me a couple months ago and I'm still pretty steamed.

I'll remember to flag you to the excerpt on same I've been meaning to post.

[Askel5]

Hesburgh wishing to undermine Catholic Doctrine and to support population control.

P.S. I think it's important always to remember that love of money and a desire to be part of the Inner Ring will make the best of men do bad things.

Hesburgh is by no means the worst of the Catholics as far as cooperation with the State and assorted private eugenics and pop-control efforts are concerned. Monsignor (now Bishop, I believe) McHugh, Cardinal Spellman and a Bishop in Louisiana whose name escapes me at the moment have far more grotesque "hands-on" experience in that regard.

Additionally, there is the fact that abortion and population control are GOP policies. Legal abortion being the linchpin of NSSM-200 (written and signed by Kissinger for Nixon) and the extant NSDM-314 (signed by Scowcroft for Ford).

I doubt very seriously coercive US policies re: birth control (at home and abroad) would have succeeded had not the likes of "pro-lifer" George H. Bush worked so hard to "remove the sensationalism" and morph population control into a "healthcare mechanism".

In any case ... like I said, the "consciousness-raising" was critical for its ability to negate in advance any potential for Catholic interference in the State's plans (a/k/a "imposing of Catholic values") but it was Hesburgh's 1967 "Land of Lakes" statement that should have won him a spot on the CFR if he weren't there already ... =)

[Askel5]

Hesburgh wishing to undermine Catholic Doctrine and to support population control.

P.S. I think it's important always to remember that love of money and a desire to be part of the Inner Ring will make the best of men do bad things.

Hesburgh is by no means the worst of the Catholics as far as cooperation with the State and assorted private eugenics and pop-control efforts are concerned. Monsignor (now Bishop, I believe) McHugh, Cardinal Spellman and a Bishop in Louisiana whose name escapes me at the moment have far more grotesque "hands-on" experience in that regard.

Additionally, there is the fact that abortion and population control are GOP policies. Legal abortion being the linchpin of NSSM-200 (written and signed by Kissinger for Nixon) and the extant NSDM-314 (signed by Scowcroft for Ford).

I doubt very seriously coercive US policies re: birth control (at home and abroad) would have succeeded had not the likes of "pro-lifer" George H. Bush worked so hard to "remove the sensationalism" and morph population control into a "healthcare mechanism".

In any case ... like I said, the "consciousness-raising" was critical for its ability to negate in advance any potential for Catholic interference in the State's plans (a/k/a "imposing of Catholic values") but it was Hesburgh's 1967 "Land of Lakes" statement that should have won him a spot on the CFR if he weren't there already ... =)

[Donna Lee Nardo]

Sorry, but I can judge a man by the clients he keeps.

[Askel5]

It bears mentioning that Bennett and Clinton are no longer on speaking terms. It is unfair -- and dangerous -- to besmirch a man solely because he represented unattractive clients. you made a silly remark and it would behoove you to retract it.

Dangerous?

No faithful Catholic has any business making money working for the likes of Bill Clinton. This is a subject that's come up in my personal life and it's been an AWFUL and terrible argument. I stand firm, however, that no Catholic's education, smarts, industry, focus or creativity should be put to use on behalf of the pro-abort butcher of Waco who specifically unleashed the industry of fetal body parts as commodities.

It wouldn't exactly be prudent for him still to be on speaking terms with Clinton. That's something better left to the President and State Department who tap Clinton to represent us abroad from time to time as they deem is appropriate.

[ACross]

Count me as one who doesn't give a frog's fat ass about Waco. Anybody who does is a paranoid freak haunted by black helicopters and ATF agents hiding under his bed.

I'm a faithful Catholic. That would not preclude me from representing a defendant in a murder case if I were appointed counsel.

[ACross]

For what it's worth, I support the move to lay governance, especially at ND. The CSCs need all the help -- and oversight -- they can get. There is nothing problematic about lay governance of Catholic Universities.

[Askel5]

Why do you think Catholic schools need more State oversight (at the cost, naturally, of anything resembling Catholic teaching).

And why do you think the Federal Police Force's excesses at Waco are solely the stuff of paranoid black-helicopter freaks?

[ACross]

The Land o Lakes conference had nothing to do with state oversight and everything to do with lay governance -- i.e. private individuals sitting on a board of trustees running a school.

Re: Waco -- i just don't give a crap. I don't give a crap about guns either -- one way or the other. don't give a crap about giving my SSN out, don't give a crap about National ID, don't give a crap about a lot of things that really don't affect me. Sure, Reno made mistakes. But she's never been accused of having good judgment. Waco is just what happens when a bad leader is mixed with a crazed lunatic who hordes weapons, brainwashes followers, and risks the lives of his innocent followers to fulfill his own warped messianic delusions. It's no more complicated than that.

[Askel5]

Oh, okay.