Clothing Found With Chandra's Body (Condit-Levy)

6-9-02 | crystalk

[Plummz]

1- What list where?

2- Do you have the cite asked for in reply 17?

[VRWC_minion]

Possible planned intinerary

Computer surfing till one

Meet Gary at park for ice cream/quickie/walk/talk

Followed by work out at gym.

[aristeides]

Leg cut off? More evidence of torture?

[SarahW]

OH geez, NO!!!. The disarticulation is NORMAL for the setting that body was in.

[Plummz]

Perhaps, but its also consonant with my working hypothesis that the skeleton was just dumped there within the past month or so.

[crystalk]

The lastest list of her clothing found from MPDC shows what I had in my post above. Unless what are called "panties" in my list are the same thing called "shorts" in your list, there is a difference between the two lists. Also, my list contains shoes.

The Levys' lawyer, Billy Martin, has been quoted all over as flatly saying she was abducted from the apartment, not even making clear always that it may have been from halls, grounds, parking lots, at curbs, laundry rooms or public areas....The one I remember was from an article in the Post or Times about May 25, but I cannot get it to come up on search engine this quickly.

He HAS said it repeatedly though...on search engine I get that in an interview with Tim Russert on July 15, he said "WE KNOW RIGHT NOW THAT FOR SOME REASON CHANDRA WAS LURED, CALLED, OR BROUGHT OUT OF THE APARTMENT expecting to return to it at once--AND LURED, BROUGHT OUT, SHE TOOK NO IDENTIFICATION WITH HER..."...goes on to say she knew her abductor, was willing to go out of apt door to/with him...

If you listen closely Martin has been stating flatly that she was taken FROM HER APARTMENT---- time and time again...quite consistently he has been saying this.

[crystalk]

NO!!! This is not mere "disarticulation!" The pelvis is very tough and is usually intact even in burials that are many years old, where fine bones are gone.

If a pelvis in a year-old corpse is SPLIT INTO TWO right versus left, with the entire left pelvis including entire hip socket and joint, separated from both the spine and the right part of the pelvis itself -- that is a CUTTING or BREAKING of an integral bone, not a mere "disarticulation" due to decomposition of connective tissue. I deny this could have been caused by animals or by decomposition.

In any event, if it HAD been caused by those things, there is no reason to think the entire left buttock, hip, and leg would all be GONE, with the entire right one there right down to the small bones of the foot and ankle. Human intervention is a certainty IMO!

[SarahW]

You have no idea what you are talking about.

[crystalk]

Yes, it is true that this entire other-wise complete skeleton (except for skull 100 ft away) was missing its entire left hip, leg, and foot. That means the pelvis had to be sawed loose from its right side and from the spine.

It therefore had no (left) leg to stand on, and no (left) buttock to sit on, either.

Now a tibia came back once the police abandoned the site, with a wire on it.

Now the tights were used to tie Chandra up to a tree. What will it be next.

[crystalk]

Go see how long it takes bugs to split a pelvis in two and leave saw marks on it, and leave us alone.

[SarahW]

You really, really don't.

[crystalk]

So Ok, give me a source that says I am all wet, in whatever particular of my long posts you are picking on. Why is it others can ask me to find sources, but you can just say that I am wrong? Show me some authority that disputes a fact that I give.

[Plummz]

The lastest list of her clothing found from MPDC

Where did you find it? The last list I remember made no mention of panties.

"Lured out of her apartment" could easily mean "told by Gary Condit over the phone to meet him at Klingle mansion." That is far from "flatly stating" she had been abducted from her apartment.

[Plummz]

A corpse that had been sitting for a year in a lime pit near Luray, Virignia, would probably consist of not much more than rather brittle bones by the time it was dug up and transported to Rock Creek Park.

[crystalk]

Well, of course, I had never contended it was in a LIME pit, but just (40% chance) somewhere NEAR Luray with a 60% chance it was just in a car trunk parked in DC or wherever.....nor had I contended that it was brought back only very recently, I had suggested late July, late September, and late Oct/early Nov of 2001 as likely times for such a return...once the skeleton was flensed and not very odorous.

SFAIK about 70% of researchers who keep up with this case on a daily/weekly basis and are doing respectable work, are now of the opinion that it was "brought back and placed on the slope in Rock Creek Park ten weeks or more after the original abduction."

The remaining 30% mostly feel that it was placed there in a matter of hours after her death, but still do not feel that she died there on the RCP slope.

[crystalk]

No you are wrong, with all respect. You had to hear him. He meant that she was lured to her door or a few feet down the hall, then GRABBED. He said she had no intention of going to ANY location, to ANY other place or premises, but of coming right back into her own little apt, after perhaps speaking to someone at door, curb, lobby, down hall, in lot, etc. and was ABDUCTED THERE. His meaning was clear.

The "luring" is being warped by the OTHER side to make it look like it could mean a luring on some big outing, somewhere away, where she would have dressed much differently and taken much more, such as purse, ID, money, etc.

Read any of his citations, I DO know whereof I speak.

[crystalk]

Please notice, any unbiased readers on this thread, that my statements are being warped by other posters to make it look like I am contending necessarily for the bones being placed there just recently. My theory based on all I now know at 5:42 EDT on June 10 is, that

"Chandra's remains were placed on the slope in Rock Creek Park at least ten weeks after April 30, 2001. Until brought there, however long that be, I believe she was kept whether living or dead, in the DC or Luray, Va. areas...and probably for a rather extended period in a car trunk."

And now I will make a categorical statement on another detail above:

"Chandra was taken from somewhere on the premises of the Newport condos, by force and abduction. She had no intention of leaving said premises. Any successful calling or luring involved in her abduction was limited to obtaining her opening of doors or windows, or at most her presence in public areas of the building or grounds of that apartment complex, including curb, outside doors, lobbies and public areas, parking areas. WHEN SHE LEFT HER APARTMENT, she had absolutely no intention, nor intimation of the possibility, of leaving the Newport premises, entering any vehicles, or indeed of being outside her own apartment more than momentarily. IT IS VERY POSSIBLE THAT FORCE WAS ALREADY USED INSIDE HER APARTMENT, and it certainly was used on the premises."

This second you can take to the bank. Show me wrong on it and I will hang up my mouse on this subject for good.

The first is my judgment at present, but I already have promised a poster on another forum a bet if he is ultimately shown right, in believing the body has been on the slope in RCP since on or before May 5, 2001. On the first, the other side might turn out to be right.

[Plummz]

I don't know what you had "ever contended," because I never saw you post on this issue until a couple of days ago. What I wrote is a working thesis of mine that poses a far more likely explanation for the skeletal detereoration than her leg being sawed off in the course of some torture session.

[crystalk]

Of course, I never argued for that. My guess is that the leg was sawed off after death. It was less than 24 hrs ago that I learned it was sawed off at all.

At no point have I ever written that Chandra was tortured, though she was grabbed by force from her apartment [bldg/premises] and must have known she would not survive the ordeal.

[Plummz]

I heard Martin several times, and believed he was being intentionally vague. I don't totally discount an abduction theory, but I think it unlikely.

Remember also that she never took ID when seeing Condit -- that was one of his rules.