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More Guns, Less Terror: Trust the People
cornell review ^ | 6/3/2002 | Joseph J. Sabia

Posted on 06/04/2002 8:51:50 PM PDT by TLBSHOW

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1 posted on 06/04/2002 8:51:51 PM PDT by TLBSHOW
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To: TLBSHOW
It seems our president, does not trust air force veterans with guns on their planes to prevent the loss of lives circa 9-11.

He's tweakin' some of us pretty hard buddy. I'm ready to bolt.

2 posted on 06/04/2002 9:12:24 PM PDT by Robert_Paulson2
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To: TLBSHOW
What amazes me about all of this is that the cry to allow passengers to also go armed on aircraft has been lost in the debate. Why should I, having the same military and other training, a clean criminal background, etc as any pilot, be relegated to second class citizen status?

I want the pilots armed. That said, the pilots should try to stay in the cockpit and fly the aircraft. Me and my fellow "victims" will kill the terrorists.

I never say never, but I cannot now think of any circumstance that would make me purchase a ticket to fly anywhere until I'm allowed to carry my handgun, without hassle or govt "permission".

3 posted on 06/04/2002 9:25:40 PM PDT by wcbtinman
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To: wcbtinman
You're asking for way too much (un)common sense too soon. We'll get there.
4 posted on 06/04/2002 9:26:56 PM PDT by Tony in Hawaii
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To: TLBSHOW
Not allowing pilots to fly armed is gross incompetence at best, and high treason at worst.

Either way, the tyrannical politicians responsible for such a decision should either resign from their office, or be removed through Acts of Congress.

5 posted on 06/04/2002 9:28:20 PM PDT by Mulder
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To: wcbtinman
wcbtinman said: 'I never say never, but I cannot now think of any circumstance that would make me purchase a ticket to fly anywhere until I'm allowed to carry my handgun, without hassle or govt "permission". '

My standard is a little lower. I will settle for arming the pilots right now. Incrementalism got us where we are and incrementalism can get us back to where we were.

6 posted on 06/04/2002 9:46:47 PM PDT by William Tell
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To: TLBSHOW
instead of a president who cruises around on Air Force One surrounded by armed Secret Service officers?

And often has fighter aircraft in attendence, to protect the aircraft, rather than to shoot it down.

7 posted on 06/04/2002 9:58:00 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: wcbtinman
Why should I, having the same military and other training, a clean criminal background, etc as any pilot, be relegated to second class citizen status?

It is unwise for a armed person to allow a hostile person within grab distance. The pilot and copilot can insist that anyone else maintain a certain distance from them when they're in the cabin, and can back up such demand with lethal force if needed. As coach passenger 23E, you wouldn't have such an option.

The cockpit is the key fortress. If it falls, all is lost. Arms kept within the fortress cannot be used by terrorists outside unless those terrorists have already breached the defenses. By contrast, arms outside could easily be taken since planes have insufficient room to allow armed people to protect themself from surprise attacks.

8 posted on 06/04/2002 10:08:13 PM PDT by supercat
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To: TLBSHOW
To hell with what bush and mineta want- I refuse to travel unarmed.
For the anti's figure this- if the guvmint trusts tasers and stun guns to be effective, why aren't they being issued to our police and military now?
If stun guns and such crap actually work,
then may I carry only my .45, till then- screw what some agency tells me.

I'll make my own decision.

9 posted on 06/04/2002 10:08:38 PM PDT by herewego
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To: William Tell
"...incrementalism can get us back to where we were."

I don't disagree, but my life is more than "incrementally" in danger.

10 posted on 06/04/2002 10:09:36 PM PDT by wcbtinman
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To: herewego
MORE GUNS=LESS CRIMES
11 posted on 06/04/2002 10:13:40 PM PDT by herewego
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To: wcbtinman
don't fly
12 posted on 06/04/2002 10:14:09 PM PDT by TLBSHOW
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To: supercat
Your assumption is based on the premise that there would only be one (or a very small number) of passengers armed on any given flight.

If law abiding passengers are allowed to carry, I would bet that about a fourth of the passengers would be armed. It would take a small army of terrorists to defeat that many armed opponents, whom the terrorists can't readily identify or locate specifically.

Even if I'm the only one, I like my chances better armed than a helpless victim. In fact, given today's circumstances, I would fight with whatever is at hand rather than just meekly submit to being flown into a building...no matter the odds.

13 posted on 06/04/2002 10:17:22 PM PDT by wcbtinman
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To: wcbtinman
hey bro- you won't be flown into a building, you will be shot down killing all onboard because you aren't allowed to defend yourself.
Guvmint knows best - you would be shot down by a sidewinder missle with a nine pound High Explosive charge because if you are armed, you may hurt yourself.
14 posted on 06/04/2002 10:23:03 PM PDT by herewego
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To: TLBSHOW
"don't fly"

Only once since the 11th, (pre-paid trip prior to 9/11) and not since. I want no part of the circus that passes for airline travel these days.

15 posted on 06/04/2002 10:28:50 PM PDT by wcbtinman
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To: supercat
"The cockpit is the key fortress. If it falls, all is lost. Arms kept within the fortress cannot be used by terrorists outside unless those terrorists have already breached the defenses. By contrast, arms outside could easily be taken since planes have insufficient room to allow armed people to protect themself from surprise attacks."

While I surely agree that the cockpit should be well defended, and that Pilots should be free to carry sidearms, I'd like to ask:

What group of Hijackers would attempt to gain control of a Jetliner, if it became common knowledge that an armed citizenry was free to carry their own sidearms while on Airplanes?

It seems to me, that guns should'nt be banned from air travel... only certain types of ammo, should be banned. All citizens who are armed, should check their weaponry through security, and only authorized ammo should be allowed on the plane. In this way, any would be terrorist plot, would certainly fail. The terrorist's wouldn't have a clue which passenger might start blasting first, or which ones might join in the fray!

The threat of Hijacking Airplanes would be history! at little or no cost to the taxpayers or the Airline industry. They could even make some money... charging a few bucks more for flight insurance to passengers who are packing heat!

16 posted on 06/04/2002 10:42:07 PM PDT by JFoxbear
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To: JFoxbear
JFoxbear said: "What group of Hijackers would attempt to gain control of a Jetliner, if it became common knowledge that an armed citizenry was free to carry their own sidearms while on Airplanes?"

Exactly. I have never heard of a shooting at a gun show. There have been some suicides at gun ranges, but the only armed attack I have heard of locally ended when a customer used his own firearm to shoot the perpetrator. The owner of a local gun store wears one of those hunting vests. Gee, I wonder why?

17 posted on 06/04/2002 10:54:24 PM PDT by William Tell
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To: TLBSHOW
It's not that the government doesn't trust We the People, it's that they are afraid of the People. This is a condition that preserves freedom and liberty against tyranny.

John Magaw, the former reichminister of the BATF, doesn't want any more civilians to be armed than already are, which is, in the mind of that argument for retroactive abortion, already too many.

This globalist toady knows that the only thing stopping their, the globalists, conquest of this nation is the millions, I heard lately it was 140-million, of guns and gun owners, many of which would offer up stiff resistance to such a treasonous act.

It's much easier to committ genocide when your prospective victims can't shoot back.

Apparently, the Gramscian change-agents in the government training camps and the Quisling politicians and bureaucrats haven't done their job as quickly as originally intended because, these evil creatures are doing things now which speak of desperation.

18 posted on 06/04/2002 10:58:48 PM PDT by Washington_minuteman
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To: TLBSHOW
Our POTUS better WAKE UP! on this issue.

The gungrabbers he's got calling the shots? This business could be the fall of the Bush Presidency, if some common sense doesn't prevail here. A pilot's first and foremost concern is the safety of passengers and crew, and the 'Captain of the Ship' should be an armed individual.

It's really very simple. Just take the lefty liberal politics out of this issue, and allow the pilots, crew and passengers to defend themselves!

19 posted on 06/04/2002 11:02:01 PM PDT by JFoxbear
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To: William Tell
If the common citizen was readily armed while going about business, travels, whatever... The threat of 'Terrorism' to our 'Homeland Security' would be severely reduced.

OOOoops! Maybe that's the problem? Maybe we need a 'Bogey Man' to fear, so the Feds can protect us?

20 posted on 06/04/2002 11:12:33 PM PDT by JFoxbear
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