The Folly of Hybrid Electric Vehicles

AOL, U. S. Government | 05/14/02 | HMV

[hondainsightful]

(looking at picture above)

Ahhh, making up for a shortcoming I see.

I don't need to brag about how many inches... er, "horses" I have. I prefer to think about my neighbors' lungs, how much pollution I'm putting into them with my car, and therefore choose the #1 cleanest car in the world (Insight). I put OTHERS' rights to breathe clean air before my own to rumble down the highway.

[StriperSniper]

It was the CRX-HF - a small car, but no smaller than the hybrids. And a buttload less expensive!

The CRX-Si while 'only' getting about 42 mpg, was a buttload of fun! A friend of mine had one with a five speed that she always had me driive when we went out. I didn't mind at all, it was like driving my old '76 Datsun 280Z (with half the hood ;-).

[Tijeras_Slim]

Good points but Libs won't care.

Most of their social policy and self-image is based on self-congratulation for good intentions. Don't ask them to do honest cost-benefit assesment.

[Long Cut]

"Ahhh, making up for a shortcoming I see."

Ahh, a classic Leftist comeback! You DO know that Freud has been quite well discredited, don't you? Still, I guess when you drive such a ridiculous auto, you have no OTHER recourse than to make fun of the owners of REAL cars. You, of course, could simply man up and buy one yourself, it would end the envy.

"I don't need to brag about how many inches... er, "horses" I have."

Of course not. You have neither, so thus, you CLAIM you don't need to. We call that "sour grapes".

" I prefer to think about my neighbors' lungs, how much pollution I'm putting into them with my car, and therefore choose the #1 cleanest car in the world (Insight)."

Your priviledge. Just don't get to believing that it's a GOOD car just because it's (alledgedly) CLEANER. BTW, what about all the pollution caused by its manufacture and the pollution caused by its batteries, described above?

" I put OTHERS' rights to breathe clean air before my own to rumble down the highway."

You're such a saint, I don't know what to do...perhaps I should fall on my knees before your oh-so-thoughtful feet.

It's hilarious...your roller skate has its OWN environmental issues, some actually WORSE than those of my SS. It certainly is far more dangerous to operate, and more expensive, too, once the cost of the batteries is factored in. Yet, you stubbornly cling to your self-righteous pride.

At least I'm no hipocrite. Oh, and I STILL have more fun and look cooler than you. Which, of course, you know deep down inside, in that part of you that still wishes it had some spirit. That's why your envy is so obvious.

Do yourself a favor. Take a serious car for a drive sometime. Don't worry, your neighbors won't mind (or care...they're all out washing their SUV's, anyway) and you might feel just a little of what makes Americans unique.

[hondainsightful]

You Wrote:
>replacement batteries can cost between $3000 and $8000 ought to get
>your attention. These batteries are good for 80,000 to 100,000 miles

Since the NiMH batteries will last the life of the vehicle (200,000 miles), the cost is irrelevant. They should never need replacement.





>What they don't tell you is that these are sub-compact cars. A fully
>gasoline-fueled version of the Toyota Prius, for example, could be
>expected to get comparable gas mileage with less weight and
>complexity than an HEV, and with more trunk space

99% True. Over in Europe they have tiny-engined cars that get 50 miles per gallon. They also take 20 seconds to go 0-60. No *American* would buy such a car. That's why the electric motor is added: To decrease acceleration time to a more acceptable 10 seconds, and yet still preserve the outstanding MPGs.



>This does not bode well for the HEVs, most of which are in the
>subcompact category.

Future HEVs will be available for large sedans, minivans, and SUVs.




>Accidents pose another risk. Exploding batteries, containing
>hazardous components like mercury, lithium, and lead

ALL cars have batteries in them. (Look under the hood!) The risk you describe applies to all cars. It is not a new problem, but one that has always existed.




>if system fails or is degraded, performance will suffer dramatically
>and render the auto either inoperable or dangerously underpowered.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. I own a Honda Insight. Even if the motor or battery completely died, the car would still operate as a pure gasoline car. Same applies to the Civic Hybrid.

And given that the Civic has 85hp engine, it is no more underpowered than say... a 90hp Jetta.





>A final factor to consider is the simple mass in the form of a
>battery that is hauled around with little value added.

150 pound battery/motor (the weight of 1 human adult) that provides improved acceleration. I see little mass and LOTS of value added.

.

I've rejected a lot of your claims, MAINLY because you didn't do the research yourself. Next time you post something, go LEARN about your subject FIRST. You'll make fewer mistakes and look a lot less ignorant to your readers.

HondaInsightful - 2001 Insight Hybrid owner ~90 lifetime mpg

[goldstategop]

My VW New Beetle Hatchback is a sub-compact. But it has plenty of front headroom and the bucket seats are very comfortable. Its much easier for my father to get in and out of the car than in our old Chevy Nova Sedan. I always hated those front bench seats. As for the entire HEV business, I say its the consumer's choice. I prefer a strong and reliable gas engine any day. If it were up to the Left, we'd all be driving electric cars. We can see how well that particular government mandate to dictate in detail our driving habits worked.

[Long Cut]

"Since the NiMH batteries will last the life of the vehicle (200,000 miles), the cost is irrelevant. They should never need replacement."

RRRRRIIIIGGGHHHTTT! Ever heard of Murphy's Law? This sort of claim has been made about various junkyard ingredients since Christ was a messcook.

"Future HEVs will be available for large sedans, minivans, and SUVs."

Sure, and they'll be able to pull the same sort of loads as an SUV, perform as well in a crash or on the highway as a Crown Vic, etc. Right after they grow wings and fly.

Look, pal, you want to drive one of those golf carts, go ahead. Just don't try to compare them to real cars, okay? they cannot measure up. You can even continue to feel all superior morally if it eases the shame of looking like a fool in one, or the sheer boredom of driving it. You'll STILL be doing it in my rearview, for the few seconds I'll even see you there. Cars and driving should be, IMHO, enjoyed like fine wine and good cigars.

I much prefer THAT kind of living to yours, which seems heaped in liberal-fostered guilt and fear. But, do it if you will, it's your choice, same as a "vegetarian" will incomprehensively forego a fine steak for a salad.

Just don't succumb to the temptation to use your vehicle's misbegotten existence as an excuse to try to ban or regulate MINE, as some "environMENTALists" are already agitating for.

Oh, I almost forgot...how much pollution is produced by the MANUFACTURE of those batteries "which won't need replacing" (ROFLMAO!) and all the plastic components of that little toy of yours, HMMM? How about the oil and grease it still must use?

[BearCub]

Thats a Good Point VW Diesel gets around 50 mpg. Great Car!

Not only that - it's not your father's diesel. These new diesels run as quietly and smoothly as a gasoline engine. No longer do they knock, vibrate and spew clouds of hydrocarbonaceous funk.

[Tailback]

Here we go again.

[HardStarboard]

Haven't got time or patience to do the numbers, but I have seen comparisons on realative efficiency when the energy used to generate the electricity to charge the electric car is factored in.

Bottom line, there is no free lunch. Because of the 2nd law of thermodynamics, each step in power conversion throws a percentage out the window. Gasoline is more efficient than "drive turbine, generate electricity, transmit it over hi tension wires, rectify it to DC, charge batteries, run it into an electric motor.

[HardStarboard]

I had several arguments with myself over fun vs utility vs economy. I think I won......

Land Cruiser and a Mini CooperS.